Using Measured Learning Objectives to Scale Online Education with La Tasha Simms

Jeremy Deighan
Hello, hello, Hello! Thanks for checking out the podcast today. I'm happy to have you here with us. I am with an expert in academic writing La Tasha Simms from 3LLC Consulting & Services.

Super excited and can't wait to talk and hear about your story. How're you doing today, La Tasha?

La Tasha Simms
I'm doing very well. Good afternoon, Jeremy. Very happy to be here.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, definitely. We're excited to have you and excited to hear your story and how you can help those other course creators out there with their online courses, and hopefully give us some great tips and tricks and strategies that have worked for you.

But before we get started and diving into all that, could you just take a moment and give us a little bit of your background and where you came from and kind of how you got into this world and to online business?

La Tasha Simms
Sure. So, I am from Cleveland, Ohio. I graduated from the Central State University in Ohio with a degree in Business. Shortly after that actually going to teach English as a second language in South Korea.

I was in South Korea for about five years, I completed my Masters while I was in South Korea and International Relations. After South Korea, I actually ended up moving to Oman for a little bit, I was teaching at the higher education level.

So I started to create courses for the universities that would hire me around the world to teach writing to their students. I ended up in China of all places, right when COVID-19 hit. And we kind of had to make a decision of whether we were going to stay and wait it out or see if things stabilized.

And I ended up returning back to America at the request of my family who were very, very worried about me. I worked remotely for a number of months for my university, they never adapted any of the material for online.

And so for me, it felt like the equity of learning the assessable skills and knowledge that you need to compete in this world weren't really accessible to the students. You can find this in pretty much any education system around the world.

So it's not specific to you know, any one institution, I started making massive open online courses at that point. My first course was for students who need to write research proposals. And it was 12 lessons, and it had videos and it had, you know, a walkthrough of you know exactly how to write each chapter and examples and interactive videos, and it was a hit.

1200 kids took the course. And they were really, really grateful for the resource. And I decided that this was a service that I wanted to offer not only my students who were trying to improve their writing.

But that this was a service that I could offer to businesses, to non government organizations, to other universities and to other institutions of education, whether they be K through 12 or vocational. Well, I started this business in July of 2020. And we launched July 2021. And just kind of been chugging along ever since then.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, that's awesome. That's a great story. I was on your website earlier, looking around, it looks like you're doing some really great things. And seems like you just got a wealth of knowledge. I can't wait to ask you a lot of these questions.

But backing up, one of the first things that you mentioned that I wanted to ask you about is you said that you started writing courses for university. So how did you get into that?

What did those early days look like before we got into your own company? Just writing those courses for universities? What did that look like to you?

La Tasha Simms
You begin as the curriculum designer, so you make the PPTs you determine the content for your kids, but it's for in-class teaching. So we're creating the curriculums for our students based on the accreditation in skills that the students were supposed to be able to exhibit by the end of the course.

Jeremy Deighan
Awesome. Yeah. And you know, I think this is really cool. Having different people on this podcast, I get different stories and different backgrounds and everyone is coming at it from a different angle.

Not everyone has that expertise in curriculum design. Some people are just throwing courses together because they just want to teach something they love right?

So I would like to ask you some questions around curriculum design just for those who don't know anything about it or haven't experienced that before, what makes a good curriculum?

La Tasha Simms
Course learning objectives. Measurable course learning objectives, by the end of this course, students will be able to execute this action. And within this course, I will make sure that students are able to do ABCD because these are the things that are necessary in order to be able to complete this action.

Every learning outcome, every course learning outcome, it must be measurable, that is the equity in education we are supposed to be giving you have a skill that you can use in your life in order to create more access to opportunity for yourself, right?

Well, that's the purpose of education, in my mind. So, really having a solid structure, a syllabus, you know, a Course Overview measurable learning objectives, learning objectives for each lesson, of course layout for each lesson, it's really important to show the students what they will be doing to model that behavior and coach them through that course.

And you're right. YouTube University is very, very popular. As an educator, I'm excited that there are people learning, but there are theories and principles to education that we use to make effective learning principles. So, I can take the good with the bad on that one, I suppose.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, I totally agree. And it's just very interesting topic to hear more about. And if you hear me pause for a minute, I'm taking a lot of notes here because I think there's a lot of good information.

Now, when you say measurable objectives, how are you measuring those? Is that through quizzes or tests? Or like, you know, someone wants to implement this into their online course that they're providing. How would you do that?

La Tasha Simms
Well, first of all, you need a diagnostic to figure out what your students know and what they don't know exactly how far do you need to bring them in the curriculum. Now, your diagnostic you put at the beginning of your course, and also at the end of your course, so that your students can see their progress and in their skills within your course.

So, that's kind of the first thing, but also quizzes. After each learning activity, there should be a knowledge base quiz. A lot of what we do in education is we build knowledge base.

And then we coach you through the material, we model how to do it for you, and then we give you a practice assignment in order for you to be able to try it on your own.

Something that I have noticed that's a little bit lacking in the courses that I've seen is summative and formative assessments. So halfway mark assessment, we will call this a midterm, or something like that, to assess your learning up to that point. Have I put everything in this course that you need up until this point?

Is the testing scenario authentic to what I'm asking you to do? These are all questions that you have to ask yourself when you're creating your curriculum. So my first question is for writing a five paragraph essay. I can't create an entire course on writing a five paragraph essay, and then allow my students to record a digital final assessment.

There's a misalignment there. So it's really about aligning and testing in an authentic way, from quizzes, your knowledge base to your ability to execute the skill that I am trying to attribute to this course, basically.

Jeremy Deighan
Nice. That's a great explanation. And I really like this, you know. I don't think enough people are putting these assessments and these diagnostics into their course. And it makes a lot of sense, because everyone is coming at education from a different place.

And if you don't have a baseline of where that person is, in their journey, how are you going to be able to tell if they're actually learning anything as they go through the course, right?

La Tasha Simms
And we've all done it, like we've all bought ebooks and you know, signed up for things, you look at your like, just basic information, I knew this. But if there had been a diagnostic in the beginning, if there had been some sort of, you know, learning scenario where you were able to gauge whether or not these skills or this vocabulary had already been studied by the student education as a science.

Overall, that's what I want to say education is the science in their theories and principles, rubrics that we use in order to make sure that the learning outcomes are met in a course.

Jeremy Deighan
Okay, very cool. Now, when you are doing these assessments, and maybe there's a problem where we're students, they're doing these midterm or these final diagnostics, and they're not grasping the information

I guess that gives you an opportunity to go back to your course and say, "Something isn't right. I didn't explain it correctly or something needs to be adjusted." Is that correct?

La Tasha Simms
Yes. And that's exactly why you have to have that. You don't just throw the whole curriculum away. You go back. "Okay, was there not enough knowledge base building? Did we not quiz this correctly? Are the questions worded incorrectly? Did we not make it clear enough to the student that this is what we expected of them?"

There are so many facets of creating a truly equitable learning experience. And it's difficult. I understand why people do not endeavor. You truly have to be committed to creating opportunity to people via whatever your particular subject matter expert area is.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, I guess there's a lot of people out there, especially coming from the marketing and sales world that is interested in just you know, throwing a course or a program together, making passive income and sitting back and drinking Mai Tai's on the beach.

But what you're saying is, you know, you can't do that. You have to be invested in the betterment of the student, and to make your program better, so that you are helping and affecting more people.

La Tasha Simms
Yeah, if that's your goal.

Jeremy Deighan
It should be.

La Tasha Simms
Yeah, it should be. But you know, people get into education, because it's profitable is the building block of society. It's, you know, what separates someone who has all the opportunities in the world and someone who never gets to leave their city.

So yeah, I totally understand it from a business standpoint, I have a business degree, I get it. But if you're truly committed to making sure that the people who you're teaching who call you teacher.

Like, I was an Asia for a long time. Being a teacher is a highly esteemed position. A little different in America, but we're not going to talk about that.

You know, I spent a lot of my adult years like, you know, my formative adult years in Asia. So, I have a lot of respect for the position, like people entrust their minds to you.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, I like that. I mean, that's very true. And we have a lot to learn and a long way to go. And hopefully, we do get there one day. So going back to this first course that you created, the one to help you write research proposals.

And you said, you got a lot of students. Now, was this still for the university? Or was this something that you were doing on your own?

La Tasha Simms
So both. I actually pitched the course to the university, because I was only one person, and there were over 2,000 4th year students, and I was all they had. And that's the problem at a lot of universities, there aren't enough people.

And even if there weren't enough people, there aren't enough hours in the curriculum for you to truly be assessed on what I'm trying to teach you. So I pitched them a course I said, "Hey, I have all of these materials, let me make an online course. It'll be there forever. They can go into it on your own. It can be completely asynchronous offer workshops every week. And let's try to do it like that."

Because every student has a different schedule. Everybody has, you know, different time commitments. Asynchronous courses is how you bring education to scale. When we created a curriculum for the university, 15 different people taught that curriculum, how can I guarantee the learning experience for 15 different people?

I can't. There's no standard, you know, and even if I do give you a standard, what is the system by which I can follow up on that? And they look at the students test scores for that, which is not a true assessment.

Jeremy Deighan
Right, right. Yeah.

La Tasha Simms
So, I pitched them the course it took me about two semesters to build it. But that's okay. And I want a lot of people to know that you do not have to have your entire course ready to go before you launch.

This students are not going to get through all of your lessons in a day. So that it took me about a year to you know, build out the whole thing. Research writing research proposal, writing is a very dense subject.

Everybody who's matriculated through higher education has had to write a research proposal at some point or another. But the reason why we assign research proposals in universities is because it mimics the research process of being able to critically think and problem solve.

Pose a question, do the research, try out a solution to the problem, or to the question that you have, and then be able to test that in a way that someone can come behind you and do the same thing, and then conclude your thoughts.

That is the research process. Every person on the planet is supposed to be able to critically think their way, and problem solve their way to making the best decisions in life. And that's from buying a car, to buying house to getting married.

These are all research based decisions. So, we weren't just assigning these research proposals, because we thought it was fun. And we'd like to grade you know, 40 page papers.

Not at all. We didn't, but this is an authentic assessment of you being able to pose a question, test and answer, discuss your results and then conclude. And if you think about your life, you do that every day.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, and I mean, I would say even more so. Maybe not more so but definitely in the business aspect, because business is the constant phase of researching and figuring out problems.

And so that would seem like a very beneficial skill for anyone listening to this podcast to have to be able to take a problem that they're facing, because they don't know how to do something, they don't know what platform they need, they don't know how to blog, or do SEO, or whatever it is, and then take what you broke down, and use that information to get past that hurdle in their business, right?

La Tasha Simms
You're not getting any sales. Alright? Test the solution to that problem, go on podcasts, do email marketing, you know, text marketing, hire a salesperson, all these things require you to do research.

All these things require you to make a choice that helps you to solve the problem that you are experiencing. And then you have to test that solution to your problem. We do this over and over and over again. So being able to write it down, is really where the cognitive connection comes in. I do enjoy this.

Jeremy Deighan
Again, taking lots of notes over here. So, this is great. I really, I really enjoy this topic myself. I you know, it's really cool just to think through that.

I mean, when when you're writing something down, it's one thing to think of an idea but to to formulate that into words and put your words on paper, or in a document, it makes you really fine tune and really think about that problem and really figure it out.

I was doing this for some training. I was trying to figure out what training I was going to do and how I was going to title it and what was going to be in it. And it's one thing that saved my head, like, "I think it could be this" but until I sat down and started writing it out and visualizing it and putting it together, then it became a reality. You know what I mean?

La Tasha Simms
Right. There's a reason why we're encouraged to read and write so much while we're in school. It builds your cognitive processing ability, you see how others process and then you process better.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, I like that. I like that a lot. So I didn't want to ask you. And I mean, I guess answer this the best way that you would like to answer this, but what did the structure of you basically selling your course to this university look like?

I mean, I guess that you offer to do a course for the university, the University is going to push the students into the course. Was there kind of a payment exchange going on? I'm just trying to think like, if someone else wanted to do this, or to try this method, what would that look like?

La Tasha Simms
So, I would recommend finding a university that fits your subject matter area of expertise first. So I was a salaried employee of the university when I pitched this course. So they were able to free up teaching hours for me to create the course and to teach the course.

So, I was underpaid, for sure. But it was fate. The way that I'm working with universities now is as an education consultant. So I contact universities, "Hey, I have these two courses."

You know, I would like to offer your students a 14 day free trial in my courses and after working with like their student support service department or their procurement department, you'll be able to offer them what is called like a course licensing deal.

So however, you know, many people your platform can handle you offer the school, "Hey, I let this number of students into my course for this number of months. And I'll do the training and the onboarding for you. And this how much that is for a year."

So you end up with those kind of contracts, you end up with, like leasing contracts for your courses, but you can also work with them. And I've done this as well as an education consultant.

You know, there's no course and they need to build a course because all colleges and universities have accreditations that they have to maintain in order to stay open. For example, lots of graduate programs, there has to be a writing component.

But it has to be specific for the writing program. So, a nursing program is going to be way different than an engineering program way different than computer science program.

So you would sit with the particular department head as your subject matter expert, and you would use their expertise and their content to create a course from them. And then you sell the course to them. Because it's specific to their school.

Normally, they have their own LMS pretty much every university has its own LMS. So you would just need to build it on their platform or be in contact like with their online learning system department, and they'll help you with that.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, this is super cool. This is something that I really haven't heard too much of anyone doing before. It seems like another avenue for you to get your material out there to help other people and to put some training or a course together for University.

I just really haven't heard anyone talk about this before. So it's really fascinating.

La Tasha Simms
And it works the same way for small businesses. If you're a subject matter expert in, you know, social, let's say like social responsibility courses. So this is like, you know, sexual harassment and you know, things like that.

Trainings that are required for businesses, same thing, approach the business, "Hey, I have this course on, you know, this particular subject, I think it could be, you know, beneficial for you guys."

Or even an onboarding. It's a learning experience, get creative. You can use course designed to do training to do onboarding, there's really no limit to what you can create.

Jeremy Deighan
It's a cool world we're living in right now. I mean, technology has opened a lot of doors, and that's why I love being having this podcast and getting to interview people like yourself, as I just get to hear so many cool different variations of things.

I mean, people are doing it completely different ways. I've heard of people doing something similar b2b, you know, business to business where they've gone to a fortune 500 company, and they've taken their program and sold it to hundreds of people at a corporation.

But the fact that you could do the same thing, kind of similarly to a university, and say, "I have the material, I'm an expert, I can help put this information together, I can be a consultant, and we can build this together."

It's just, it's super fascinating. So I'm just glad that you're giving this information. Now, when you are not using the school's LMS. And you're using your own Is there a particular platform or a particular style that you'd like setting up for your own stuff?

La Tasha Simms
I use the platform LearnWorlds, it's sort of like a WordPress in the front and an LMS in the back. So it gives you the best of both worlds, they have the templates that you can, like, you know, build out for yourself in order to build your web pages and things like that.

So it's really user friendly. And you can also manage your courses and you know, have course analytics and things like that in the back on the backend of your courses. I found them to be really affordable, and they give you like a business success coach, and you can book with them anytime you want.

I've been with them, I think maybe a year now I've been really satisfied with them. As far as like course structure videos first. I like to grab attention with videos. I like to keep my courses really interactive. So there's no talking in my video, so you have to pay attention.

Old teacher trick. So I like to put music. It makes you pay attention. You read what's on the screen. You're like, "Oh, okay." So I like videos. I always provide a script with my videos you need to keep things ABA compliant for people who can't hear see very well.

And next always vocabulary building that knowledge base. That's something you have to do you never know how new the learner is to the content. Practice of how can I tell if I've taught you anything if I don't give you anything to practice it on?

How can I assess you? I can't. I normally try to follow that like interactive video, some type of knowledge-base quiz based on vocabulary, some type of practice and reading material, like the script. Like they can go back over and read the script is downloadable screen reader assessable.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, that's really cool. I want to talk a minute about the music or not having spoken word inside your videos, because that's something also I haven't heard too many people doing again, you come from a I don't know how to say it a, you know, an educational background through university.

So you've picked up a lot of tricks that I think a lot of people listening probably haven't heard of before. So this, this is a pretty interesting one. If anyone's wondering what La Tasha was talking about earlier, before we got on the call, I had music coming through my headphones, and now just trying to find Spotify or Pandora figure out what it was it was her website.

Which was great, because it made me go back to your website and be like, "Oh, yeah, let me look at this again." Right? So that's very interesting. So you're saying that your videos you just do you do some kind of music?

And then is it just slide you said it's interactive. So I guess you could do some kind of animations or whatever. But it's basically text or slides or something like that on the screen while music is playing. So someone's reading that as they're listening to the music?

La Tasha Simms
Right. And then you have to interact with the video. So learning can be active or learning can be passive. Sitting and listening to someone talk to you is very passive.

Jeremy Deighan
And so do you ever do any of that? Do you ever do any kind of passive learning?

La Tasha Simms
For clients? Absolutely. For adults, who don't have a lot of time, you know, who are already familiar and this is just a training that is mandatory or something that just needs to be updated? Yes. Put VoiceOver on it. Absolutely.

Make it into infographic as short as possible. You know, make it into a micro learning situation. There are different styles of learning solutions that you can create based on who the learner is.

I'm working with variable extracted students. I am trying to keep their attention, just about as long as I can. So all of my videos are between like five to seven minutes long, we don't really do anything longer than seven minutes, because I know you're not listening anymore, or reading any more after that time.

But I'm a writing experts. So you have to encourage reading as well. It's a skill like English, it's a systematic language, the better you read, the better you write, the better you write, the better you speak, all of our skills are sort of compounded on top of one another.

Yeah, for clients, and you know, depending on who the student is, yeah, of course, I'll put voiceover. Of course, I'll you know, change up the style. Whatever the learning objective is, and whoever the student is, whatever the profile of that student is, you have to sort of create a learning scenario that is authentic to what they'll be experiencing.

Jeremy Deighan
So cool, okay. Now, you know, this is just thinking off the top of my head. I don't know if you do this or not. But when you do these assessments, and you're kind of figuring out who your student is, in the beginning, are you ever using that information to maybe send people to a different part of the program?

Or maybe teach them in a different way? I know we have different learning styles, some people are visual, some people are auditory, some people like hands on? Do you ever separate your information out for those different kinds of learners? Or do you just try to hit everyone the best that you can?

La Tasha Simms
So, I offer coaching in my courses. So, at the end of each lessons that they're truly feeling like they're not getting the benefit, or assessing the knowledge that they're supposed to receive from the course they have the option to book a tutorial with me.

Like a free tutorial with me so that we can actually sit down and figure out okay, is this the class for you? Do you need to go on to another class? Do we need to skip this lesson for you? Or is this just a situation where you need some private tutoring?

Jeremy Deighan
Okay, cool. So, that gives you the opportunity to adjust or move them or help them out with wherever they're struggling?

La Tasha Simms
Exactly. That also goes back to like course evaluation. So we even do this with our clients. After we have implemented your course and onboarding, you have like a 72 hour last look period.

About 10 days after your course launches, we go back to your course. "Hey, here's your you know, your latest seven day report. Let's see what people are saying." Like it's a education is an iterative process. You're not going to get it right 100% for everyone on the first try. It's impossible.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah. Amen. It's definitely a refinement process. You know, there's information in there that you're forgetting to add. Or sometimes you're even putting more information in there that you need. Do you find that happens, too?

La Tasha Simms
Absolutely. I logged into a I won't say the name. I logged into a very popular online learning platform the other day, and there were 37 quiz questions for one lesson. Are you out of your mind?

Jeremy Deighan
I would burn out around number eight or 10.

La Tasha Simms
And that's about the sweet spot if you've taught it well. If your scriptwriter and your subject matter expert are working together well, that's all you need. People who actually know what they're talking about, how long does it take them to tell you what it is?

Three minute pitch max. 37 Questions? Somebody doesn't know what they're talking about. That's not good education design. It's not right. That's overwhelming that's overbearing and I promise you, whatever the learning outcome either was too broad, the learning outcome or you just didn't have one.

Jeremy Deighan
This is excellent. I thoroughly enjoyed this. I love the topic of curriculum design, and just creating a good student experience, because I just feel like there's so many people, especially coming from, you know, the marketing side of things, or there's people who are great at selling and marketing, but their courses are just so not good.

You know, they're boring. And like you said, they're repetitive, and they're long, and they're filled with fluff. And I feel like, you know, taking some of these ideas that you've talked about today, is super beneficial.

I mean, when I coach and talk to people, I try to tell them that, you know, each lesson needs to have, like you said, an objective, not that the whole course needs an objective. But then every lesson needs to have an objective, and you need to just focus on one objective not have four or five different things that the person is learning.

Would you agree with that?

La Tasha Simms
Exactly. And that goes back to what we were saying before, about having to have measurable learning outcomes before you start. So in educate higher education, we use what's called backwards planning. So when I start to make a course for anyone, my first question is, by the end of this course, I want students to be able to do this.

Now that is the course learning objective. Now, each lesson is supposed to be a segment of skill necessary in order to achieve that learning outcome. So you need a plan. And this is all research. This is all you know, research.

I took, even after I had been in education for a really long time, I took an instructional design course. And I do recommend that anybody who wants to make their own course, crack open an instructional design book pamphlet, infographic, it will save you years of heartache.

Because that is how long it can take. And you definitely don't want to pour your whole self into something. And then you hand it over to me. And I'm like, "No, that's out. That's out. That's out. That's outdated. That's old. That's not true."

Like, I'm gonna do that like that. I'm a curriculum signer. So it's really important to have someone to work with you on a syllabus first. And even if there's not a syllabus, a course design, a handbook, something.

You need a roadmap, you need to plan, don't just, "I want to make a course about this." And you just don't, please don't do that. I'm not saying you won't sell. But I'm saying you life is going to be a lot harder.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah. And it might be a short-lived business, because people aren't going to promote your course to others if it isn't fun and interactive, and they're not learning anything. Yeah, I agree.

Thinking about that syllabus. And I know our time is getting short. And I just love talking to you. Because this has been really, really awesome and eye opening.

If someone were starting out, say someone's like in the beginning of their journey, and they're creating the first course or they're trying to figure this whole process out. And you mentioned creating a syllabus.

Do you think that it's easier to start with a syllabus, to start with writing some kind of guide of what people are going to learn before creating the course because I know people who just jump right into teaching videos, and going right at it.

But it sounds to me like you're saying, it would probably make more sense to create a syllabus or like a like a teacher's guide type thing that tells you that these are the objectives that you're going to be learning in order and hashing that out before you ever turn on a camera or ever start recording anything.

La Tasha Simms
I recommend it. That's how you create a truly equitable learning experience. You don't start at the beginning, you start at the end, and you work your way backwards, building a curriculum, building lessons and things like it's much more than just a video.

Because if I can teach you how to think if I can teach you how to research for yourself, then you don't have to come back to me. But a video, you just watch the video, I don't really teach you anything. You passively sit there and listen to me talk.

And I made you feel empowered to go out and do whatever one thing I was trying to teach you. But that's was that really what you were here for? Were you here to just learn this one thing or were you here to actually be able to have a skill that you can apply to this one thing.

So there's there's just a difference. And every learning scenario is different. Every student is different. But for the course designer, I really don't understand how you could not have a roadmap. Building a curriculum is much more difficult.

I think everybody in America should be tasked with building a curriculum and teachers will get a lot more respect. Okay? It takes four to six weeks to roll out one of these courses, whether it be six lessons or 10 lessons, it takes a great amount of effort. Five people, curriculum designer, content developer, script writer, it takes an entire team of people four to six weeks to make six to 10 lesson curriculum.

So don't fool yourself into thinking that you'll be able to tackle this whole thing on your own and without a plan and truly achieve the purpose of educating people. But yeah, it's it's a huge task. It requires a lot of revision and a lot of thinking and a lot of people, I, you know, just to save yourself some time and heartache and you know, very long nights. Very, very long.

I have a client who she made six courses now. Yeah, yeah, she's made six courses now on financial literacy. They're great courses and for like K through 12 students. But she didn't work with a curriculum designer.

So now I'm looking at everything that she has trying to figure out where I can put it. That's going to take me at least half the time that she took the making.

Jeremy Deighan
Right. Instead of building it correctly from the ground up. Now you got to go back and start fixing a bunch of stuff.

La Tasha Simms
Exactly.

Jeremy Deighan
I always joke and tell a story about the Photoshop course I made one time and 16 hours, hundreds of downloadable resources, and no plan. No, just everything that you said you should do in this podcast I did not do. Actually I calculated, it's been less than 3% of my overall revenue of every course I've ever made. So not too good. So listen to La Tasha!

La Tasha Simms
Thank you so much, Jeremy, I appreciate you having me.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, it's been amazing. I would love to keep talking, maybe have to have you back on the podcast. This has been great. Thank you for all your information. And if people want to find out more about you, or find out about your services, and how you can help them, where can they do that at?

La Tasha Simms
So we are on Instagram @3llcconsulting, you can also visit our website at www.3llcconsulting.com. You can also find us on LinkedIn at 3LLC Consulting. And last but not least, I think we have a Vimeo, we all put our videos on Vimeo, same thing, 3LLC Consulting.

If you'd like to get in touch with me, for any kind, of course building services, you can just email me at businessdevelopment@3LLCconsulting.com, we usually respond within 24 to 48 hours to those inquiries.

You can also go onto our website and sign up for our newsletter if you're interested in anything education related that we may have coming about. And if you're interested in improving your writing, learning how to represent yourself well in the written form.

Which I'm going to be honest, when you're opening company emails from your colleagues or you look, you're like, "Ooh," it's important to learn to represent yourself well, in your written form. It just is if you're interested in that, I think I've given you a link for your listeners, they can sign up for a free 14 day trial for any of my writing courses.

The first one is for a five paragraph essay, being able to write five paragraph essay. So that's more for high schoolers. The second one is for like we said research writing. So that's the intermediate course more so for higher education, or so or for you know, 11th or 12th graders, you know.

And my last course which is coming out next month, it will not last. The final course that I'll be rolling out for this one is a customer service skills.

Jeremy Deighan
Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, customer service is something that a lot of people need so I can get started on that topic. We'll make sure that we link up everything in the show notes.

We'll put out all those links and all your social media URLs. And, man, this has been a blast. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. I've really enjoyed it. And thank you for being here.

La Tasha Simms
Thank you so much, Jeremy. I look forward to speaking with you again.