The POLAR Method Lionel Lim Uses to Scale His Fitness Training Program

October 26, 2020
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In today’s episode, you will hear from Lionel Lim who has created a very high ticket fitness training program, and the strategies he has incorporated along the way.

You will also hear the POLAR method that he uses when teaching others, the best ways to get students to consume lectures from your own online course, and how he is able to raise capital for the production of online courses before they’re even created.

YouTube: LionelLimdotcom
Facebook: LionelLimdotcom
LinkedIn: lionellimdotcom
Instagram: lionellimdotcom


In this episode, you will hear...

… how Lionel turned his past of low self confidence into one of his biggest strengths.

… Lionel’s journey from feeling embarrassed about his body to entering national competitions and creating a complete fitness training program.

… the way’s Lionel was able to capitalize on his fitness training program and begin teaching others how to start their own programs.

… the three P’s that your business needs to be built around to be successful.

… the strategy that will take your product from a bloody red ocean to a clear blue Ocean.

… what makes a good List of ideal customers and how to attract more of them.

… how you can make a great online course people will love while having the capital to make it the best possible.

… the way to create an Asset for your company and not just another cheap product.

… how to automate and Repeat the process so that it can continue to make sales for years to come.

… how to pre-sell an online course and the strategies used to deliver it correctly.

… how to leverage the “X Degree of Separation” method to make more sales.

… the way Lionel uses in-person events to gain loyal followers who are ready to buy.

… the best way to get students to consume the course lectures and actually take action.

… the number way concept that course creators should be concerned with when selling their online course.



Jeremy Deighan
Hey, everyone, thank you for checking out the podcast today. We have Lionel Lim with us from How are you doing today, sir?

Lionel Lim
I'm doing great. Thank you, Jeremy, for inviting me on your podcast.

Jeremy Deighan
Yes, definitely. We're really happy to have you and just to dive into your story and how you started with online courses, and where you're headed next. So why don't you just go ahead and start off and give us a little bit of story about what you were doing before online business and creating online courses. And how did you get into creating online courses?

Lionel Lim
Okay, so I used to be very skinny. In fact, I was stick thin and weighed only 55 kilos. So my confidence was at rock bottom. It really affected me a lot because I was also named-called. And I was given a lot of nicknames. In fact, I was even bullied in class, and had my pants pulled down when I was in school. So it was very embarrassing to me. And I always wondered why I couldn't pack on muscles like the rest of the guy's did.

So after many years of hesitating, I finally picked up the courage to join a gym. That was when I started experimenting with different techniques, workout strategies, programs, and finally built the dream muscles I wanted.

So one thing led to the other, I have my newfound confidence, and dream body, I entered a couple of national competitions. And I realized that even though I wasn't placed in the top five, at least, I walked away from experience. And I translated that experience into a successful personal training business. So to answer your question, I was in fact, a personal trainer before I started creating online courses.

So after I became a personal trainer, I decided to capitalize on my knowledge and expertise to help other skinny guys pack on muscles the way I did. And that was how I grew my fitness business. And one thing led to the other.

And basically, what happened was, I realized that I was able to attract, just like a magnet did, the dream clients I've always wanted. And I thought "Hey, since I have a system, why not I put everything together? And I teach other personal trainers, how they can possibly do the same, to build, to grow and to scale their fitness business?" And that was the angle I took in 2016 when I launched my online program.

Jeremy Deighan
Okay, so you launched your program, what, what did that program look like when you first got online? Were you just doing live coaching online? Or did you just put it directly into a course? What, what did that look like?

Lionel Lim
Okay, in 2015, I actually sketched out the outline of the course, but 2015 it was still a face to face course, which means that someone registered for the program, I will conduct a physical workshop and I'll guide them and coach them along. Then 2016 I decided to move everything online, which means that once they enrolled for the program, or they paid for the program, they will be given a unique membership ID to log into a portal. So everything was done online.

It was like a do-it-yourself system. Which means they come, they learn, they internalize, and then of course, if they have any questions, there's a three month mentoring program that follows after that. Which means that for three months, I will be there to help them with their questions, their queries, their challenges, but they first have to assess and finish up the materials, which consists of like videos, audios, scripts, strategies, exams on the portal before they actually start prospecting, closing and training their clients.

Jeremy Deighan
Very nice. It sounds like you have a lot of stuff in the course to help out. How do, how does the actual course look like when you are teaching online, whether it be through the live or through videos, because I know, you know, fitness, I've always wondered how people go about doing fitness videos. So are you, are you doing slides? Or is it videos of you doing the workouts? What does that actually look like?

Lionel Lim
Okay. Because what I offer is not actually a program that teaches you how to get fit. Rather, I work from the other angle. Basically, I help fitness enthusiasts turn that passion into a profitable business without any prior experience, or branding or client base, which means I teach people who are interested to kick start their fitness program, I give them a fitness business in the box model.

Jeremy Deighan
Okay, so if you, if you're already into fitness, and you are thinking about starting your own business, then that's what you're helping out with.

Lionel Lim
Correct, correct. That's what I call a Blue Ocean Strategy. And later on, I'll share the marketing strategies I use as well.

Jeremy Deighan
Yes, I, definitely excited to get into that. So whenm when you first put this out back in 2015, 2016, what, what was that like? You know, was it, did you have a plan? Or were you just kind of throwing something up? And, and seeing what happened? How, how did those early stages feel to you?

Lionel Lim
On the journey, when I first started, I had an idea of what I wanted to achieve. And that was, I did not want to continue living the life of a personal trainer, having to spend 12 to 15 hours in the gym, helping people to work out.

Yes, it was my passion. But I don't foresee myself doing it for the next 10 years. So what I did was to have a game plan in hand and to move into a blue ocean strategy. Because many people were talking about a fitness business, they're talking about a Jeremy or a Lionel, they're actually helping me to get fit. So I'm not helping you to lose weight, I'm not helping you to build muscles.

So people who bought the program, I assume they already have basic to good fitness knowledge. They know how to work the machine, they know how to use their body weight, they know how to actually structure a decent training program. So what we actually do is we package them, we brand them, we position them, and we help them source for prospects and teach them how to close, how to handle objections, and to kickstart their fitness business.

Jeremy Deighan
Very nice. Now, how were you finding people in the beginning? Like, when you started putting everything online? Was it just word of mouth? Or did you have a strategy for getting people into the program?

Lionel Lim
There was actually a strategy. So what I did was I joined seven fitness communities. And I showed them the results of my clients. And I say, "Hey, if you would like to find out how I can actually help the client transform, and turn it into a viable business, then you could contact me."

So initially, the, it was a combination of word of mouth, social media, as well as just putting yourself out there, writing more articles, blogs, promoting yourself to the fitness community, doing more weeks, like speaking engagements, nutrition talks, corporate wellness programs, just putting my name out there. So the more people know me, they interact with me online, and of course, from there, one thing led to the other.

Jeremy Deighan
You mentioned in the beginning your blue ocean strategy. So for anyone who's not familiar with that term, can you elaborate a little more on what that is and how it's worked for your business?

Lionel Lim
Okay, sure. The Blue Ocean Strategy is actually the second step in my POLAR system, which I'll share later. But since you've asked me.

So the Blue Ocean Strategy is basically finding a niche, which nobody else is doing. Because if you are fighting with other people or competing with other people for the same fish in the same ocean, there's going to be a lot of blood, so we call it a bloodbath. And the blood is red in color. So you don't want a red ocean strategy.

So when I really look at the fitness industry, most of the fitness trainers, in fact, all of the fitness trainers in Asia, or Singapore, where I come from, they're actually building their fitness business based on how they help a client achieve a body transformation, whether it's going to be weight loss, whether it's going to be muscle building.

But for me having been there, done that as a personal trainer for more than six years, I've decided that, "Hey, I've got enough experience. I've got enough results to show. But what's the next step forward? What's the step forward that can give me the quantum leap so that I can ensure I'm one step or many steps ahead of my competitors, and also I have longevity in the business?"

That was when I completely overhauled the module, in the model. And I say, "Hey, since I have been successful in attracting the type of prospects I want, and I'm able to build rapport rather easily, handle the objections and close them, why not I structure everything into a program. And then I teach one of the fitness trainers or personal trainers who have problems attracting clients, even though they may have nice bodies, why don't I just teach them this program? And if things work out, well, then I'll do it on a long term basis."

So that was my train of thought when I first started off. So the blue ocean strategy to put it shortly is to look at what your competitors are doing now, and overhaul the entire thing. So for example, if everybody's doing face-to-face training, a blue, that is red ocean, then a blue ocean strategy would be to do everything online. So as to do everything completely different from what your competitors are doing.

Jeremy Deighan
Gotcha, yeah, that makes, that makes a lot of sense. So you said that was the second part of your strategy. So let's talk about your marketing strategy. You mentioned that was the second part, what is the first part and what are the other parts of that strategy?

Lionel Lim
Okay, so basically, I have a system which I call POLAR, P, O, L, A, R. Polar. The first P, the P is actually a abbreviation because there are actually three P's. So before you actually decide on what you want to do, or what program you want to design, or who you want to attract, you need to be familiar with the three P's.

So any business needs to revolve around your passion, the proficiency and your profits, which means that, then what you're passionate, you need to be really passionate about what you do. Because if you're not passionate, then your business will not last long.

The second P is actually proficient, which means that you need to be good, or even an expert in what you do. And the last one is, we build businesses, because we believe in the M and D principle, M and D stands for I make $1 while I make a difference. So we're not running social enterprises, we're not running charities, so your business has to be in the black and not in the red.

So when you combine your passion, your proficiency and your profits, you're able to find out "Hey, so this is what I'm good at. This is what makes me money. And this is what makes me happy." So this, this is the first P in polar.

So I've already explained O which is the ocean, the blue ocean. We're gonna move on to L A R.

L. The next step is the third step, which is L. L is actually for list. So like what I hinted earlier, who will your cost appeal most to? That's the most important.

So for me, I'm very clear who my target market is. So basically, I attract two groups of people. The first group will be fitness enthusiasts, which means that they have the body, they're in their early 20s. They're probably in the polytechnics, and universities, they work out three to four times a week, like to pose in front of the mirror with selfies, etc, etc. So that is who that I attract.

The second group of people I'm attracting will be people who are tired of working for a commercial gym. So the existing personal trainers. So basically, I attract these two groups of people, because the second group, the existing personal trainers, they're like, "Okay, I'm sick and tired of working for a commercial gym, because the workouts are long, the pay is ****. So I want to come up and start my own business and be my own boss," but they are thinking, "hey, when I leave the commercial gym, I cannot bring my clients along, because that's against the company policy. So how do I start from scratch?" So these are the two groups of people I attract.

So your list will be basically, who do you appeal most to? And if possible, are you able to get them to pay you first? I learned this concept from Apple, the real life. The reason why is because I've been asking myself, "Why do iPhones sell so well," is because Apple does a pre sale, even before the next iPhone is launched, and they get the money in the bank and they are able to do promotions, they are able to do gigs and events, etc, etc. So I learned, this concept from Apple which is called pre sale.

So basically you can pre sell your program. And if someone bought the program, you could actually just take the deposit and for them to actually just top up the balance once they receive the program or the online course. So L stands for list, who does it appeal most to?

A in POLAR stands for asset. So once you have the list and you have pre sold, you can start building a course. So my biggest advice for all my friends listening here is that, do not build your course before you sell it. You should reinvent the wheel.

You should sell your course before you start building it or constructing it. That's very important, because you can build the most beautifully, aesthetically looking course in fact etc, etc, but if no one buys it, that's going to be a complete waste of your time. So I would rather sell it before I build the course. So A is, now you have some money in the kitty. A, you can hire a designer, you can do a membership portal, which is what I did.

Put all your assets online. And for me, I chose a membership portal because I could have, I could know who will be accessing the system. And the membership portal allows me to know who will be accessing the system, how many times they assess, what materials they download, and once they've completed that particular module, they will check it off. So it gives me an overall view as to who is assessing and who is not assessing the program. This is very important.

So you create your cost content on, or asset on your own website. I know that there are other platforms out there such as Udemy, Trainable, etc. etc., where you can also put your course content there. But there is a monthly fee we need to pay. So you need to really, to weigh is whether you want people to come to your website and become your community, or whether you want to put your course on another portal, pay a monthly fee, and of course, you may have to compete with the rest of the competitors. So that's A for me, Asset.

Jeremy Deighan

Lionel Lim
Okay. R is basically the last part of POLAR, that simply means rinse and repeat. So once you have a list, you continue building the list, continue pre selling, you have built your asset, you rinse and repeat by collecting testimonials. So for every student who has gone through the program, they have seen results, they have gotten back their investment, their return on investment, they have two times, three times, 10 times the investment, I will actually invite them to do a testimonial.

So it's a video testimonial and very often, video testimonies are great because you can't fake a video testimonial but you can probably fake a written one. So unless they are good actors or actresses, you can't really fake a video testimonial. So they will emote. They will share the beginnings, origin stories of how they come along way, how much they have earned, how grateful they are, and what the next steps for, for them.

So the video testimonial actually works as a success story for me, just like how most trainers will collect testimonials of before and after transformation. So it's same way. I collect video testimonials. And what I do is I consider raising my prices. So R besides studying, besides representing rinse and repeat, I also take it to represent raise my rates. So when I started off the online course was at X amount, now I've raised it because over the years I've seen many dozens of success stories.

So in short, that stands for POLAR is this is, what POLAR that is. So to sum it up POLAR is like POR, P O L A R. P stands for passion proficiency profits. O stands for ocean, in particular the blue ocean strategy. L stands for list, which means that you need to start knowing who do you appeal most to, and if possible to pre sell them. A stands for asset. So once you've pre sold your dream list, you should start building your asset either on a common website, or you can build your own membership site on WordPress, which is very affordable. The last R stands for rinse and repeat. And once you've rinsed and repeated the efforts enough, it's time for you to raise your prices.

Jeremy Deighan
Awesome. That is a great strategy, a very succinct and easy way for people to remember. And it makes a lot of sense. I follow a pretty similar strategy. I think you've laid it out a lot better than I have. But I agree with everything you've said.

Let's talk about a moment for, on a, pre selling your course because I know that that is something that hangs up a lot of people. They hear that people can pre sell a course, that you can sell something before you've made it. And a lot of, a lot of people have a problem with that. They don't understand the strategy or they think that it can't be done. Even some people disagree with it completely. So can you elaborate a little more on the pre selling? How do you go about that? And what would you say to someone who, you know, hasn't done that before and maybe is struggling to pre sell their course.

Lionel Lim
I think pre selling is the new norm, is definitely a new norm. Just like, because COVID-19 pandemic hit, so many gyms are shut. People cannot operate, they cannot exercise. So people are forced to adopt online or virtual trainings as the new norm. So, therefore pre sell or pre selling something before you actually construct it is something you have to get used to.

Very often people are afraid to pre sell because they do not know their materials good enough. And perhaps they may not even be confident as to deliver what they have pre sold that prospect. So if you want to pre sell, you have to make sure that the offer is sexy. And more importantly, after you have taken or you have received the deposit or the, the money from your prospect, you must be able to deliver the product on time, or even before the delivery time. That's very important.

So what you can do for a presale is to tell people that, "Hey, I'm only giving 10 seats out for the first 10 people who actually register, they trust me, okay? I'm going to give them massive value, I'm going to give you bonuses," or the other extreme and could be, "I'm going to give you a massive discount."

But I am for the former group, which means that I would rather give you extra coaching, extra resources and extra help. And not do a price, price slash, because doing a price slash is actually a no brainer. So if you do like 50 bucks, I do 25 bucks, there's no end to it. And people will normally just go for the cheapest product or the cheapest service in the world. And that is not going to do you any good.

So in order to do a good pre sale, you need to know who to target. Why are you targeting that? And you need to know what will make them tick. So in other words, what is that pain factor? As you Jeremy, a doctor now, what is your pain you're experiencing? So once you know the pain, you aggravate the pain so much that they have no choice, but to look you up. They have no choice but to cooperate with you. They have no choice but to buy your product. Because your product, your service is just placed in front of them. Your product, your service, promises to deliver ABC, which will alleviate the pain and give them pleasure.

Jeremy Deighan
Nice, I like that. That's really, that's a good way of looking at it. So when you, when you want to pre sell, you have your idea, and you want to go out and you try to pre sell your, your product that's going to eventually be your course or your asset.

Lionel Lim

Jeremy Deighan
What, are you? Are you offering anything for that pre sale price immediately? Or is it just "Hey, I'm gonna launch a course and collect the money now. And then in a week or two weeks, I'll build out the course," how does that process look like?

Lionel Lim
Okay for, for me, right? Because like what I said, I am pretty active in the fitness community, I've made a name for myself. So what I did was I actually got people to sign up as affiliates. So that's another strategy.

So you can actually do an affiliate strategy, get people who are equally passionate about fitness, rope them in as your affiliates, tell them to spread the word about you're, about to be launched course, so that they can pre sell the course for you as well. So instead of you having to do all the pre selling yourself, you could get your affiliates to do the selling for you.

So very often, for example, there's this term called the "X Degree of Separation." So I may not know you, Jeremy, but if I know a friend who knows you, and if the friend, my friend pre sells the cost to you, it is so much more effective than me selling it to you. Because you trust your friend, there's the trust element there.

Jeremy Deighan
Right, so you're, you're using affiliates to leverage other audiences that people can reach.

Lionel Lim
That is what I call the cold audience, which means that people who may be interested but they need a little bit of natural push and some cajoling. So you need to turn the cold audience into a warm audience and then from warm, you got to turn them on to red hot.

The other way you can do pre sale is primarily through Facebook ads, which I run as well. So you can run Facebook ads and say "Hey, I want to launch this particular course," and Facebook allows us to do laser targeting. So you can just target the age group, the gender, the location, the hobbies, the interests.

So people who are into the fitness niche, people who are your guys or girls, whoever your target audience is, they will see your ads. So when they see your ads they will click on it, and of course, your, your ad copy has to be good. So basically, you don't have to be good in online courses. It's not just designing the course. But to me, the offer must be good, the presale must also should be good. Now, of course, the course itself must deliver results. Because if your cause deliver results, then the second pre sale, which you do for version 2.0 or version 3.0, before you raise your price, will be so much more easier.

Jeremy Deighan
Right. Yea that makes a lot of sense. So when you are sending people to the ads, when, when you get them on your ads, and they click, where's that sending them? Is it straight to a landing page that talks about the pre sale of the course or are you doing some kind of opt in or lead magnet before that?

Lionel Lim
Okay, so when we do Facebook, Facebook ads, typically when you click under the ad, it sends you to a workshop. It sends you to a workshop. So what happens is people will sign up for the workshop, they will turn up and then we will share with them what this whole online program's about, what this whole program is about. And then we will get them to opt in. Because it's always easier to convince, if you have an opportunity to speak to them face to face.

No one will actually pay, pay for a high ticket online program, which is like a four figure program, just by clicking on an ad and then whipping up the Stripe or PayPal or credit card, nobody would do that. They must be really crazy.

So in order to sell high ticket, because my items high ticket, so you're going to sell high ticket online program, the best way is to get, launch Facebook ad, invite them to a webinar or online pro, online course or briefing. And at the end, if they stay towards the end of the webinar, or briefing or workshop, you can dangle a carrot, which means you can give them a free ebook, you give them the five strategies on how to succeed. So these strategies will piece, but they will still point to the online program as the next level, as the next logical choice.

Jeremy Deighan
Okay, and what does that workshop look like? Is that a one on one workshop? Or is it just a video they watch? What, what does the workshop look like?

Lionel Lim
Ok, the workshop is actually a physical workshop. So we will actually pack the room with our intended audience, invite them down on the evening after work and what sometimes, about seven to 10, spend about three hours with them showing them the developments of the fitness industry, how does it work, the progression. How did it go from there and how our online program where if we help them move to the next week.

Jeremy Deighan
Okay, and this is a physical in person event that you're talking about?

Lionel Lim
Correct. And now of course because COVID has hit, so we have moved a physical online, a physical program to a webinar.

Jeremy Deighan
Okay. And, and how long, whether it be the in person workshop or the webinar, about how long is that typically? Is it an hour, a couple hours?

Lionel Lim
Okay. Normally we plan for two and a half hours. So we will spend about two hours sharing what we have done, why we are trustworthy, what other clients say, etc, etc. And then the next half hour will be spent getting their buy in on the online program or online course.

And for those people who are interested, they will stay back, they will have more questions to ask, then we'll engage them one on one. For those who are like wishy washy, they leave the room they say "Oh, I need to think about it," to give you an excuses, "Oh, this is so expensive for me," etc, etc. We say thanks, but no thanks. But then once they leave, we will retarget them.

Jeremy Deighan
Okay, so you're taking notes of the people who are interested and not interested and anyone who doesn't show interest then you'll go back onto Facebook and retarget them again?

Lionel Lim
Yes, yes. No, we will not go back to Facebook retargeting because we have already, we already have their emails and their phone numbers from the Facebook ads, right? So what we're doing now is we will just target them by sending them emails, and we'll go down sell them a program, which means that you have a high ticket online course. You also have an abridged version of the online course.

Which means I have two versions. One is a high ticket, which means it's the full blown version. And the other one is a watered down version, which means that, if you have the materials of the watered down version, you're good to go. But if you have the materials of the high ticket online program, you're destined for success.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, this, this sounds like a really good strategy. I like this.

Lionel Lim
What happens is, I've had a few guys, they bought the, they bought the watered down version. And after going through the modules, they actually looked me up, and they say, "Hey, I want to get your online, I want to get the full blown version," I'm like "Sure, you should have got it a year ago."

And these people, they are actually tracking mine, they are actually tracking me. They're tracking my success. They follow me on IG and Facebook and all the social media. They actually see how I conduct my business, how I help my students succeed.

So how, so besides selling your program, be able to sell your program is one thing, but how you live your life with authenticity, that's very important. So it's not just about selling online programs, it's how you help other people succeed. Because to be honest, I have bought online programs myself, okay from other other gurus or whatever. But I find that the quality of the materials, it's, it's questionable.

That's one and number two, some online programs, you just don't feel that there is a floor structure. So for me, the structure of the online program is very important. Because I'm treating everyone as a newbie, they're coming on to my Fitness Business College, it's just like you come to college, you learn, there's like year one, year two, year three before you graduate. So it has to be systematized number one.

And number two, you need to have several pit stops, or checkpoints, to make sure that they have internalized the lesson and they take action. So if people consume courses, and we know how people will think. Most people, they buy a course, they're like I'm interested, but they don't finish the course. So let's be honest about it. Most people, they buy courses, but they don't finish it.

So in my case, what I do is I offer a kick in the butt service. So once you buy the program, I will check in with you because, because of three month mentoring. I will check in if you, make sure that you have done your homework, you're attempted the exams. And then the excitement comes because I want you to take action, to actually source for leads or we'll pass you leads as well, close the leads into prospects. And we will go through each case study. So why were you successful in this case? Why were you not so successful in this case? And once they closed the first client, they just take off from there.

Jeremy Deighan
This is a, this is some really good information, Lionel. I appreciate you sharing this with us. It sounds like that's, just a really good strategy. I like how you're doing the in person workshops, because it feels like you can really build a lot of trust and repertoire with people right there in the event and then make that sell and follow up with them and help them along their path.

So thinking about the past five, was it four to five years, six years that you've been doing this? What are, what are some mistakes or some pitfalls that you've actually had, that might help out someone who's just starting their journey listening to this podcast? That something you might have made a mistake and you would do better in the future? Or if you were talking to someone who's just starting out, what, what is something that someone new could look out for?

Lionel Lim
I think the most important thing is don't be too ambitious. Which means that your online program should not be an encyclopedia, because it will not, it is not supposed to serve everyone.

So the mistake I made was I wanted to jam pack my online course with everything from A to Z. And then I told myself, I say "Hey, if I have an online course which is going to stretch for six months, nine months or even to a year, I don't think the participants will be able to finish the materials and they can't start earning."

So I decided to reposition the course as a learn as you earn. Because people are practical creatures. They buy a program for one of the three reasons. It's because of health, relationships or wealth. So in my case, people who buy, they are already healthy, but they want to start their fitness business, they want to know how to, to be able to start earning. So I focus on the wealth.

And if I have the program that works for a year, because there is so much materials inside, people will not have time and the bandwidth to take action. Granted that some of the participants are working or already full time students So what I did was I condensed the course, and only retained the essence of it.

So for example, instead of having 20 videos, I only have 12 videos. And every video is short, because people have short attention span. You do not want to record a video, which is like an hour long, because people would rather watch a YouTube video and be entertained, then be educated. So my videos, the longest video is four minutes. The shortest video is one and a half minutes. If I can say what I want to say, if I can share what I want to share in one and a half minutes, so be it. You don't have to stretch other people's time.

The most important is you must also have an actionable step or a few actionable steps inside the video or inside your program, which nudges people forward and gets them to take an action. Because if they're just here to listen, I think yeah, I agree with you. But at the end of the day, they leave the course. And they say "Hey, I just spent a few thousand bucks or I just spent a few hundred dollars on this particular program. Yeah, it's useful. But, so what's next for me?"

I do not want my participants, and I also do not want my fellow online course creators to have this lingering feeling, because it's not a good feeling. And then you will, you will face problems like "Oh, I want my money back," you know, "this course is trashy," and then when, when the wall goes up, then of course your course will not have longevity.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, that's some, that's some great advice, keep it short and sweet and actionable.

Lionel Lim
Short, sweet and actionable and most importantly, it's targeted to your market. Because if you have other materials, good for you, you can create a second online course.

Jeremy Deighan
Right. So if it's, so being very, very decisive about who it is that you want to help that ways it speaks directly to that person.

Lionel Lim
That's right.

Jeremy Deighan
Very good. So we're coming up on our time here. It's been such a pleasure talking to you. Where do you see yourself going forward from here? It sounds like you've had some great success, you have a really well oiled machine in place. Everything is systematized and you're doing really well. Where would you like to see yourself going forward from this point?

Lionel Lim
My dream would be to bring my online course and offer it to anyone in the world. Because currently, I'm based in Singapore, so I'm targeting the locals. But I foresee that the next six months, I'll be moving up to the rest of the parts of Asia, because I believe that I have something good to offer. And if they don't take up the course, that it will be at their loss.

Jeremy Deighan
Right. Well, that, that's great. I mean, the beauty of online business and online courses is that you're able to do that, you're able to spread it globally. What right now is one of the best things that's working for you? What would you consider is just really working out great right now that someone could implement immediately today?

Lionel Lim
That would definitely be helping others succeed. Because when I first decided to embark on the online course and create it, it was not just to make money. But more than that it was to create a good bonding with the community and to help other people succeed, because when other people succeed, they will be naturally happy. They will be grateful. And more importantly, they will help you spread the good words of your course. And the course sells by itself.

So now I have graduates telling me, "Hey, I have a friend who wants to enroll in your high ticket program." I'm like, "Sure, just bring him on board."

There's no need to do a face to face zoom meeting. There's no need to actually conduct classes. People just sign up. Because their friend told them to. "Hey, you got to get Lionel's fitness coaching program because it really works. You see I've made how much money in the past few months."

So people are, people actually onboard themselves automatically. So for people out there who are, about to embark on the program, please make sure that your program works. Because once it works, it will become an automatic salesman by itself.

Jeremy Deighan
That's awesome. That's some great advice. We just appreciate you. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast today and sharing these strategies. You've given us some really, really good gold nuggets that I think that people can take away from and use for their own online business and online courses. So where can people find more information about you?

Lionel Lim
Ok cool. So if you're interested in getting my online fitness training coaching program, which is designed for both existing personal trainers, and for fitness enthusiasts, they can head over to That is

Jeremy Deighan
Perfect. Thank you Lionel so much for coming on the podcast today. I just hope you have continued success and reach that global audience that you're, you're trying to strive for.

Lionel Lim
Thank you very much, Jeremy, for having me on your show. And I look forward to perhaps maybe we could create a course together in the near future.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, definitely. That'd be wonderful. All right. Well, take care and have a great day.

Lionel Lim
Okay, cool.

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