In today’s episode, we have Simon Severino with us and he is going to talk about why sales are the lifeblood of your business and how to get more of them for your online course.
You will also get to hear the mistakes he made when first starting out, why providing a free workshop in the beginning helped propel his business, and why you should only focus on selling your course before doing any other types of marketing.
In this episode, you will hear...
… Simon’s story on how and why he joined the online sales world.
… why sales are the lifeblood of your business and how to get more of them for your online course.
… the mistakes he made when first starting out his online course.
… why providing a free workshop in the beginning helped propel his business.
… why you should only focus on selling your course before doing any other types of marketing.
… how Simon started a certification program to grow his business.
… Simon’s tips on how you can begin a certification program for your online business.
… why Simon suggests new course creators to focus on their email list to achieve success.
… Simon’s thoughts on successful marketing, new traffic, and new sales to his online course.
… why Simon’s philosophy is to only offer free or expensive products to his audience.
Hey, everyone, thank you for checking out the podcast today. We have special guests with us. Simon Severino from Strategy Sprints, who is an expert in marketing and sales and leadership and business.
And I'm just so excited to have you on the show with us today. How's it going, Simon?
Hey, Jeremy. Hey, everybody. Thank you for having me.
Yeah, definitely. I'm excited for this podcast episode. I think there's a lot of material that we can cover that can help out those out there listening right now who are interested in creating an online course.
Or maybe they need help with some of the sales or the marketing or the business aspects of online course creation. But before we begin, just for anyone who isn't familiar with you.
Could you go ahead and give us a few moments of your time? And just give us a little background story of where you come from what it is you do and how you got into the online business space?
Sure. So I'm Simon Severino, I'm an Italian who lives in Vienna. I've been doing for 19 years only one thing, helping people with sales. Nothing else. Go to market. One thing.
But I've been doing this from New York, to Paris to Zurich, to Shanghai, to Beijing to Singapore. Now the only one thing really helping them go to market. And of course, the last 19 years have been the advent of the Internet.
So it was about digitizing everything. And so I have created my first online courses that later became our most important product during the pandemic. And they became also my certification program.
I have now scaled my company from being myself to being a whole global team that is a franchise model. So I certify people to do what I did for 17 years. And, and that's now a business model.
It was only possible because of an online course, that was planned for clients, but then became my certification course for my colleagues. Yeah, I have some experience with building online courses and selling them.
The first one, I did everything wrong. It was a great, great online course. And it didn't sell at all. It sold, I think two times in a month. And so I remember very well, all the things that I did wrong. And we can we can go there if you want to. I think it's interesting. And yeah, that's where I am. And that's where I am right now.
Awesome. Yeah, I think there's a couple of great things that we can talk about here. We can talk about that first course, we can talk about some things that you ended up doing right.
And then I would like to hear more about your certification program. But before we get into that, how did you get into sales to begin with? Talking about doing it for 19 years? What was that motivation or driving factor that brought you into the sales world?
Oh, that's a fun story. Well, first sales, I am fascinated by because it's the most vital topic. If you think of the two topics that are really vital to everybody in the world, it's having time and having money.
These are the two vitals for me. And that's why I like them. Because everybody you talk about money, they like to talk about it. And everybody you thought about having more time, they tell you that they they'd like more time with their dearest ones. More time for a workout.
And so time and money has always been what I like to talk about and this is how I started. And so I had the chance to see the coolest product launches on the planet. You know, I was in the room with BMW when we launched their new products and their new strategies.
And I was in the room with Boehringer Ingelheim when we had to do market entry strategies in specific countries. So that was just cool as something to be doing in your 20s to be with such smart people and have big problems to solve.
And then in my 30s and in my 40s I was still the experts on how you have more time and more money, right? And so I was coaching people on how they spend less time on the wrong stuff and more time on the right stuff.
But I was doing it as a consultant. And when you're a consultant, well, it's easy to be a know it all. You think you're smart. You tell people what to do, and you hope they do it, they usually don't do it.
And then I was on the other side. Now I was a business owner, and entrepreneur, a solopreneur, starting my first course from nothing. And that was really, really different.
Now, I was forced to learn cold calling, CRM, all that boring stuff. All the stuff that I could always avoid, now I had to do it. It was just again, it was vital. If you start a company and you don't learn sales, well, their company will not very long.
So I had to learn it. I didn't want to. And I remember I hired a business coach. And that person told me, "Simon, you are a farmer. You need to become a hunter." And I was like, "What do you mean, what is this?"
"Yeah, you don't have a sale system." And I was like, "What is a sale system?"And so it was really different on the other side, and I can tell you the journey from having no clue about sales, to learning it, and now to even enjoy it. And now to even share it with the world.
I like that you say you kind of got forced into that position of learning sales as a business owner or an entrepreneur, I feel like that's where a lot of us get to that point where we want to start a business.
And we're an expert, we want to teach, you know, an online course, or we want to teach marketing or how to play the drums or art or something like that. But we neglect the fact that the sales is the lifeblood of that business.
And you have got to come to a point where you have to learn the marketing and the sales. I think a lot of people avoid it. But I think that that's a point that you need to come to.
So I'm glad that you talk about that and showed that you know that something that you had to overcome and had to learn and now you're helping others do the same. So, going back to creating that first course, let's talk about that for a minute.
So, what was the first course that you did end up creating. And what were some of the problems that you had along the way?
I enrolled in a course at the MIT, which was called product and process innovation. It was expensive. It was full of great smart people. And it was extremely boring. So I ended up not finishing that course, that's how boring it was to me.
And then I did a second one, again, from a great prestigious institution very expensive. And again, super boring. But I saw that they have 1000s of students. So it was like, wait a moment, I can do something better.
Let me try and build something that's better. So I put in a whole summer of my life in building a product innovation course, that I thought was better. And then I launched it, and nobody bought it to people.
So, go back to my desk, what's going on. And the main problem was, I have built like a beginner, a course, that was perfect for me. But I did not involve the people who really matter, the users.
And I did not build it with them in for them. So I had to ditch that course, one summer of my life gone, I learned something, I did build a second course. The second course was not a course. It was a series of six workshops in three weeks. And I did it for free.
And I said, Hey, who wants to double their revenue, I take 12 people and of course 12 People were entered. And then as they arrived, this is the challenge. We want to double your revenue in this timeframe.
Tell me what's stopping you from growing your sales. And they were throwing at me the problems I was catching them and solving one after the other. So I did three times this series of workshops until I knew what they need and how to solve it.
And that became my first successful course, because I built it after doing this series of workshops. That's the way to build a course.
This is very interesting. I love this topic. Because I've also suffered from the same problem before building courses with myself in mind, not talking to people not finding out what they need or what they want, and also not making sales as you experienced also.
So, I love this idea of going out there doing these workshops, getting people together to really help you craft the perfect course and answer the questions that they need. So, these workshops you said you did three of them each one was six weeks and was all three of them for free.
No. The first one was for free. This the second one was expensive. The third one was very expensive.
Okay, okay. Yeah, I was just wondering because a lot of people will hear that you know that you did the first one for free. And they get a little turned off by that.
Is that a strategy that you would recommend to someone just starting out just to get some people in the door and start crafting that course and figuring out what people need help with?
You have to start somewhere, wherever you can start start. But if you want to build a great product, it must be around real solutions and real problems. And how do you research them? If you can get paid researching them even better.
I just wanted to start quickly, because I know that if I solve enough problems, then the pattern emerges. And that pattern becomes my new module. Meanwhile, that course and I'm still doing that course, that course is meanwhile, 274 modules. It's called the Sprint University.
And only our private clients have access to that. And but their whole team has access to that. And now it's a premium product with 274 modules. But every single module I have created with the people who are telling me, "Hey, my email sequence doesn't work."
Okay, let's look at it. And so there was a module about how to build your first email sequence, and then a module about how to improve the click rate of each email, and then a module about how to improve the open rate of each email.
So, very practical, and they were coming from the application. So now, these 274 modules, they are all really relevant. And I have now also written a book with the main 12 of those modules.
And so I'm constantly reusing those things in different forms. But the source is they come from real entrepreneurs asking me real questions.
Nice. I love it. Yeah, this is this is I think the best way to go about this out of all the people that I speak to, and the different ways that courses are created, I really feel like this is very powerful.
Getting that information directly from the people who need that help. When you first put this course on, how were you doing that course?
Was it just like a zoom call that you recorded? Or did you have a course platform set up? What did that look like?
It was Kajabi. So they were Zoom calls and videos in the back. And it was Kajabi.
Yeah, that's Kajabi is a great platform. I really, really do like that platform a lot. If anyone doesn't know, it's kind of an all in one platform, you can host your course there. And you can do a lot of other things like email and blogs and what have you.
So you're doing these zoom calls, you said it was a three weeks in the beginning. And once everyone had gone through that course, at that point, you realize, "Okay, now I have some material. And I can go and resell this course."
So did you just turn back right around and just run that workshop again, back to back like that?
Exactly. What was working, became a module of the second round and what wasn't working, I had to now build for the second round. We did the second round from the prototype.
To the second round, I changed around 40% of the modules. And then from the second round to the third cohorts, I changed around just 10%. And then I knew, "All right. Now it's almost ready."
Nice. Okay. And what did the layout What did the format of these actual workshop look like? I guess you said it was six sections over three weeks. So were you doing two calls a week? Or were you doing live calls? What did that look like?
We have a specific architecture that we also help our clients implement. It's 90 days 12, Sprint's of seven days each and every module has a video of seven minutes, where you explain what to do, a template that helps them do it, and then a space where they upload their results.
And they have peers. So one module is action doing reflection. And we use the Three Jewels from Buddha called them the Three Jewels, Buddha, Dharma, Sangha. So there is the teacher, there is the student, and there is the community.
And so this is how we build courses. Now they are more like programs. So there is something to do, then they upload it, they get feedback from the teacher, they get feedback from the community from the peers, both is different and both is very helpful.
And then there is the next thing and then there is always a live progress tracking of how they're doing. And in between some checks, "Hey, how's your confidence that you are achieving your three goals for your three months?"
And the whole thing these architecture, this is what we help our clients build and this is what we build ourselves. That's how the sprint University is, is built the mechanics.
Nice, I love it. I think this is great. I feel like the community is an important aspect of really any kind of business online courses, as you mentioned, having that community of people to bounce ideas off of and they collaborate.
I feel like it really builds the brand and the business stronger. Because you have that community aspect behind it. Are there any tools or platforms that you recommend for your community? Is that something that you do in Kajabi? Or do you use a separate platform for the community aspect?
I never recommend tools. And we change tools every couple years. So whatever you build, build it, tool agnostic. So the principles are important.
These three principles of the Three Jewels, the principle of how to build one module, the principle of how to improve it every week, but a full week at all is still a full so tools will change all the time. Don't, don't rely on tools
I like that. A fool with a tool is still a fool, I'm gonna write that one down. Okay, very cool. So this is great.
So, you went out there, you did these workshops, you validated your course idea. You had people show interest, you were able to take that information, do a couple more iterations of that.
Which allowed you to fine tune those modules and start charging a higher price point throughout that time. And then you said that this eventually became a certification program. Is this the program that you now certify?
Yeah, that's the coolest part. So now that I have a great working main offer, I wouldn't call it the product because I am in a service based business, right? I may management consultant, the business consultant.
This is a high touch professional service. So it's not really a product, right? But now with this program, I had something in the beautiful sweet spot between service and product. And it was scalable.
So I go, "Wait a moment. I could now fire myself from the core operations from fulfillment, what if I am not the coach anymore?" I build the same curriculum to teach my colleagues and what if they pay for it, and they can enter from everywhere, then I might have now representative of these methods on the whole world.
And so I did patented, it became the strategies prints method. And the strategy Sprint's University, I created a certification program. And now I have people in all time zones, who are certified.
Were doing amazing work with this helping people have more time have you have more money. So they're having amazing impact. And they're doing marketing, because, you know, they are applying it in India, in Singapore, in Paris, in Los Angeles in San Francisco.
And by virtue of just applying it, they are automatically doing marketing for the method. So it's a revenue stream. It's something that made my business extremely resilient, because now you can have a very bad month, and you still have revenue streams.
And it's an amazing way to scale marketing, because they are doing marketing for me while I sleep.
This is a cool concept. I've heard this once or twice before. I think it's a pretty interesting way to go about it. Like you said, it's kind of self fulfilling that people are now promoting the business because they're being certified and they want to go out and market that business.
So you certify someone to become an instructor, and then they go out and they teach your methods. And then do they they get a payment and then you get a percentage of that payment?
Yeah, there are three revenue streams. So the costs are they have a monthly cost committed to 12 months. And for those 12 months, they're active certified strategy sprints. Coaches can use the method can use the sprint university.
They pay a monthly flat fee to be part of that franchise. And now in their country, they can go out and have three revenue streams. One is they land their own clients, and they keep 100% of it.
The second one is 20% of commission. When they bring clients they get 20% commission. And if another coach does it, and if another coach brings a client and they coach them, they pay them 20% commission.
And the third revenue stream is I also get a lot of clients where every Monday in the Monday meeting, I bring in clients. And since I'm out of operations, I hand them over to my coaches. So every Monday we meet and I distribute plans.
So, your role is I guess operations of the business?
There is an operations team for operations. My role is really representing the business. So growth, hiring, vision, culture and part of growth is sales. Running the sales team and working on form, fit, and function of the sales systems.
Yeah, you know, I love this because you know, a true entrepreneur has the vision, right? They're the ones who really oversee everything that is happening, and they want to take the business to a place.
And I love this, what you've done here, because a lot of this gets stuck into the operations of the business, we like you said, you know, you were the coach for a long time. And your time is tied up in that.
And you want to grow the business, but you're only limited with so much time and resources. But you being able to pull yourself out of that and grow it this way means that you can do so much more with this business.
So, I think this is just a really cool idea. And then the fact that you have these different revenue stream models set up so that others can go out and and basically make money for the business. And then you can focus on the big picture of the business, is that correct?
Correct. And the magic about that is, if you do that, you turn all your fixed costs into variable costs. And if you think of it, the most cost position have everybody listening right now is their headquarters.
If they have a headquarters, their staff, if they have staff, and these two positions were gone from one second to the next, I had zero fixed costs, except you know, software and a couple Macs, and Wi Fi, that was my fixed cost.
And everything was a variable cost. And variable cost is the best thing to have when you run a business because you have more work, you pay more. You have less work, you pay less, it's perfect.
It's absolutely resilient. So there is a self-healing mechanism in their self-correcting loop, that when the business has more to do, it has more costs, when there's less to do it has less costs. This is what saved us over the funky years that we just experienced.
This is great. This is really good information here. I'm just thinking that. And this could be applied across all industries. You know? I'm just going through my head and thinking about different industries.
If you're in fitness and you have a certain way that you teach, you could certify your fitness program. If you teach music, you could certify your music program. So, what does that actually look like?
Say someone is listening to this and say they've had a course for you know, some time that's doing really well and they hear this and they're like, "Wow, this is a cool idea. I would like to create my own certification program."
What does that look like? What do you have to do to set that up and get that rolling?
There is a lot of info on our page, it's strategysprints.com. And I really go in depth, there are even single modules that you can grab for free that you can download. So if you want to get deeper, a short answer is the first step is you pick your topic.
The second is you solve real problems. And the third step is your product ISIS. So you package it like a product. And then the fourth is just the right contracts and start hiring. I'm happy to tell more.
If people want to jump on a call, they find misread reprints.com. But really, it's these four steps. And as a concept, it's pretty simple. But we teach this so in 90 days, we can share our Blueprints that 274 modules are built for that. We can share the step by step blueprints and even swipe copies if they want.
I was wondering, is there any kind of like legalities, regulations, laws or anything like that you would need to be aware of when setting up some kind of certification program?
Yes, there is. And every country is different. So, it took me around eight months to figure it out. And I spend a ton of money on legalities. And now I share it for free with my clients.
In the end it's just four or five topics that you have to make sure work. Yeah, it took me a month, but I can make it easier for people.
Okay, perfect. Yeah, that's one thing that I was concerned about is if if someone wanted to set that up, you know, you got to be careful that you're following the right processes.
But it sounds like you've got good information on that. So people can go check that information out and get that from you if they are interested.
So, thinking back to the person listening who doesn't have an online course maybe they're in the early stages of their online course, I know, one of the things that you talked about was going out and creating a course for yourself, versus going out and creating with the student in mind doing that workshop.
Is there any other tips or advice you could give to that person listening, when they're just starting out to help them along their course creation journey?
So, it depends on your email list. If you have more than 10,000 people on your email list already, it's easier. If not, then start building your email list. When you have that.
Now, the first step that I will do is take one day in nature go out in nature and think about the one "wow" experience that your course should have them create and really feel it tasted. Think about it.
How do they walk out of this course? How does it change their life, their business, and take good a couple hours to think about this. And then you come back and you record this audio or you write it down. That's the most important piece.
And then you pick a headline for this and you pre-launch it, you say, "Hey, people in two months, I have this amazing thing coming up. It will do benefit number one, how it changes your life benefit. Number two, how it changes your life. Benefit number three, how it changes your life."
I can only take 12 people. So, first come first serve, it's very cheap, it will never be as cheap as this time. It's the US dollars. So this is how you can enter first come first serve. See you in two months. If you get eight of them, you build it. If you get below eight, you have to go back in nature and do the same thing again.
Because it wasn't a good enough idea or something was off with a messaging, right?
Nobody needs it. And so you have to find something that people need and want. If they don't need it, they won't take it.
Right. Very good. Okay, so you go out, you do this pre-selling process. Let's say you get some people in you, you do a workshop, just like we talked about earlier. And you have a good product now.
Let's say that it goes really well. People love it. You have good testimonials. What about some of the marketing aspects?
So, what are some things that you're seeing out there that are working really well, as far as marketing goes, getting new traffic and new sales to the online course once you've built it, and it's published and out there in the world,
I will be very honest. And I hope nobody gets irritated by this. But before your course does 1 million per year, you should not spend one second, or $1 on marketing. The first thing before your course does 1 million per year, the only thing you should do is sales.
And sales means prospecting, buildinglanding pages, improving that. Only these three things, how you get people to talk about the course, and how you get them to buy the course.
No marketing, by marketing, I mean no social media, don't spend one second on social media in before the million. Because you're wasting your time and energy. It won't convert if you don't have a conversion engine, something that turns a conversation into a deal, then you're wasting your time with marketing.
So, the first couple years before you hit that million, your only job is sales and operations. By operations I mean create improving the course every day. So every week, your course should be 1% better than last week.
And every week your sale system should be 1% Better than last week. These are the only two things to d. Build a product, sell the product. Don't go on social media. Don't write books, don't start podcasts.
You do that after you hit the first million because after the first million it's about scaling. And this is where marketing comes in. Right now, I'm doing all the marketing because I'm scaling something but in my first two and a half years before I hit the 4 million, I then do only sales are about I would have not survived.
So the beginning only sales. That's the growth stage of your business, then you hit the million. Now you turn from sales into marketing. Now you add the marketing system on top of it. And now you start spending money, spending time and hiring people.
If you're not doing any type of marketing, social media, podcasts, blogging, and so forth advertising, obviously, how are you finding those initial people to buy your course?
From your email list and from your surroundings. That's the sales. So, people who know and follow you, and people who you know, and see that they have a problem that you want to solve.
Remember, you just need eight in the first month. So I'm sure you know, eight people. And so if you identify a problem that they really have, and if you are passionate about solving that, that's your first cohort.
Just focus on these eight people for this month, during this month, you make them as happy as possible. You solve these problems. And then in the last quarter of it, you ask, "Hey, who else needs this?"
Now, these eight people will refer you to another 16 people. That's how you grow your audience. But you grow it in the relevant way, in the warm way, no cold stuff, no cold calling in this stage, and no ads, no social media. I would go just from these eight, making the 8, 16, 32.
And then through this process, as you did, you could raise your prices. So, do you feel like you could start off with eight people at a lower price, you get them results, you get referrals, and then you could raise your product price after that?
Yeah, there are different philosophies. And I think they all work. My philosophy is I have only free and expensive, I have nothing in between.
So when I start something, it's free, because I am developing it. They are basically my research team, it's fine to be free, right, because we are all working on something. But then as soon as it works, that might be the second cohort, the third cohort, as soon as it's 90% working, and it's delivering either more time.
Remember, I deliver either more time or more money. That's the minimum ambition of my programs. And I even guarantee that. So, a fraction of that money that they do in additional sales, that becomes our price, ideally, 1/10 of that.
So for example, if you can help the user have an additional $250,000 In sales, via your program, then 25,000 is a good price for your program. If you can have them cut $250,000 in costs via your program, then 25,000 is the right price for your program.
A 10 to one ratio is a very good deal for everybody. That's what I go for 10-to-1 ratio, and then you have your price. And it should be immediately expensive. So I start free. Maybe I need a second free round. But it's as soon as it works, it becomes expensive. This 10 to one ratio.
I like that 10-to-1 ratio. I've heard that before. And it seems like if you can help me save or make $250,000 in my business, I would gladly pay you $25,000 Or even a smaller amount than that.
So that makes a lot of sense. You mentioned guaranteeing also, this is something we haven't talked too much about on the podcast. But I would like to hear your insights on providing guarantees for people.
How do you feel about that? And what are some guarantees that you've used before that seemed to work really well?
Guarantee is a very interesting topic. When we started guaranteeing, we had a tough conversation in our team, "Hey, do we really think that it works?" And this is the conversation that you want to have in your team? And so we started full guarantee for money back.
And so we had to identify our minimum delivery numbers, right? Because if you have a guarantee, you have to guarantee something. And that's, again, a very important conversation to have in your team. Hey, what can we really deliver?
And so just for this conversation, it's worth considering installing a guarantee. And then if you get to something and say, "Okay, I can I can guarantee you them 10 to 14 hours free up your time per week." Alright, then that can become your guarantee.
And now your team is on their toes. The client, the user is on their toes. It becomes a high touch, of course high ticket program. That's not a course. Right. That's a 30 30k program. And now everybody is on their toes. You make them pay up front, and then you have the perfect flow, they are super motivated, your team is super motivated.
Everybody wants this to be a win. And this is the best project situation you can have when both parties want to win, want the project to be a success, this is the best situation you can have.
Because everybody here knows that if you have an online course without de entering excited, which is 99% of all online courses on this planet, then you have a completion rate, which is immaterial it's I think, 3%, the completion rate of all courses. Maybe it's two, maybe it's 10. But it's, it's immaterial. Because of that. Nobody has their skin in the game, nobody wants this to be a success is.
"Oh, yeah, I bought an online course. But I forgot where it is, you have to create more skin in the game, you have to create more risk and more commitment. This is where the magic starts to happen. That's why our clients say, "Hey, we double the revenue with these guys in 90 days."
Because they wanted to, they had paid up front. And they were super motivated. We were super motivated, because everybody wanted this to be a win. These are the preconditions and then you need good modules that work. You can have a great course.
But somebody comes in with low excitement, they will not execute. If they don't execute, they will have no results. If they have no results, they will say your course doesn't work.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. That's a perfect analogy. I think this has just been really awesome. You really got my brain turning and thinking about everything that you've said.
I think it's been wonderful all the information that you provided today, and we really appreciate it. And you've come a long way. Like you said, 19 years you've been doing this, and you made some mistakes, but you corrected those mistakes, you found out what's working.
You have a certification program now and your business seems to be doing really well. Just thinking out in the next say, two to five years. Where do you see your business going? What is it that you'd like to achieve going forward?
We have ripple effects. So every certified Strategy Sprints coach, helps other people have more time and more money. Those people get get home to their dinner, and they are more relaxed, and they listen more.
And they are less grumpy. They are better mothers, better fathers, better sons and daughters. That's the ripple effect. And this is what excites me. Can we continue this ripple effect even more?
And so can we double our own impact every year. That's what is described on our five pages company vision, the impact that we have, and those ripple effects. This is what what gives it for me, you know, purpose and meaning. That this is what my mission in life is.
My mission in life is to open doors and turn on lights. My vehicle for doing this is this program. I found my vehicle to do my little contribution. And that's for me the most fulfilling thing.
And I never have to fly again. I hate flying around. And I don't have to because the program works everywhere on every phone. My only thing is keep rolling. I hope ,you know, I stay healthy. And and I stay happy and I keep rolling.
Awesome. I love it, Simon. And I hope the most success for you going forward in the future and that you can keep creating these ripples and affecting people's lives and helping them out.
If people would like to find out more about you your business and how you can help them. Where can they do that today?
strategysprints.com is where we hang out. I'm also everyday on YouTube. I have two channels. One is called Strategy Sprints. And one is called Simon Severino. And I go daily on them both YouTube channels. But really, where you find all these templates and information, that's strategysprints.com.
Perfect. Well, we will make sure that we link everything up including your YouTube channels in the show notes. So everyone can go find those and click on them and go follow you and subscribe and give you lots of love.
Thanks so much, Simon, for coming on the show today. This has been awesome. And I really appreciate you being here.
It was fun. Thank you, Jeremy. Thank you everybody. Keep rolling!
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