Musician Ayana Webb Teaches the Importance of Creating Automated Business Systems

October 18, 2021
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In today’s episode, we have Ayana Webb with us and she is going to talk about the importance of creating automated systems in your online course business.

You will also get to hear why teaching in-person training can help your online course curriculums, how having a mentor can propel you much farther along in your business, and what metrics to pay attention to when you begin running ads.

Facebook: The Digital Webb
Instagram: thedigitalwebb
LinkedIn: Ayana Webb, B.A.


In this episode, you will hear...

… Ayana’s story before joining the online course creation world.

… the importance of creating automated systems in your online course business.

… how Ayana scaled her piano course business to over six figures in 12 months.

… why teaching in-person training can help your online course curriculums.

… the importance of targeting the right audience who has an interest or is searching for your product.

… Ayana’s tips on how to successfully build an email list and how to interact with your audience through your emails. 

… how having a mentor can propel you much farther along in your business.

… what metrics to pay attention to when you begin running ads. 

… the essential aspects of automation that every course creator should know. 

… why organic marketing didn’t work for Ayana’s business. 

… Ayana’s number one piece of advice to anyone in the early stages of their course development.



Jeremy Deighan
Hey, everyone, thanks for checking out the podcast today. We have a special guest Ayana Webb with us. And she is just an amazing marketer, and just really good into automation and ads and online course creation. And I'm just so excited to have you on the podcast today. How are you doing?

Ayana Webb
I'm doing good. I'm glad to be here. How are you?

Jeremy Deighan
Doing really good. Yeah, this is really exciting. I'm just glad that you reached out. I've been seeing you post some amazing content in other groups. Different groups that we're the same members of.

And I just always read all of your stuff, because I feel like you have a really great way with words and explaining marketing and course creation. And so I think this is gonna be a really cool podcast.

Ayana Webb
Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I'm really excited about it, you know? I do my best to try to help other people when it comes to, you know, getting their courses out there and just making sure that they have all the pieces. So that's why I do what I do.

Jeremy Deighan
Awesome, very cool. Well, let's go ahead and get started. And I always like to begin with the person story, whoever I'm interviewing.

And so today, if you wouldn't mind just taking a moment and letting us know, what were you doing before you got into online course creation and online courses? Then how did you get into this world?

Ayana Webb
As a kid, you know, I always was involved in music. That was kind of like my first thing that I got into and even, I'm gonna give you like the short version, and then we have only three minutes because I'd be here forever. I could write a book about my life.

So it started really, you know, I first started learning piano was when I was about maybe nine or 10 years old. And, you know, music has kind of followed me into my college years.

But the thing was when I went to college, my first major was accounting because I was convinced that I wasn't going to be able to make any money, getting involved in music in any kind of way, at least, that's what everyone else was telling me, right?

You know, after my first year of doing accounting, and I had this internship that I was paid for, and I was actually set when it came to stay at that job. You know, that internship, you know, I would stay there for four years.

And then, once I graduated and got my CPA, I would be able to, I would have a job. So it wasn't like I had to look for one, you know after I graduated. So I was good with that. But then I realized, I would say three months in I'm like, "I hate this job." It wasn't even the job that I hated.

It was just the mundane side of it. It's just I go to work, I go and do some paperwork, and I go home, I just felt really unfulfilled. And I'm like, "here's gotta be more to life than this." So I said, "You know, I've always wanted to do music. So let's just go with that. And let's not worry about what everyone else is telling me in terms of, 'oh, you're gonna be a starving artist,' things like that."

So that very next year, I switched my major to music. And, you know, I guess you say the rest is history. But after that, obviously, you get to give up the internship. And I was in a situation where I needed to find work pretty quickly. And that was really adamant about finding work that was within my field, which was, you know, learning piano at the time.

And I was applying for different jobs as a piano instructor, but the problem was, I was still in school. And I was competing with other people who were quote on quote, more qualified, because, you know, they had master's degrees and they've been teaching for, you know, 20 years and, you know.

So the odds were against me in terms of applying for a job elsewhere. So I said, "You know, why not just start my own business where I just teach my own private students and just go from there?"

So that's what I did. I ordered a bunch of flyers with you know, with low money I had, and I was going out door to door for the entire summer of 2011 putting out flyers, and I was just kind of relentless with it because I said, "Well, if I want, you know, X number of students, by the end of the summer I need to pass up X number of flyers."

So it's kind of like the physical version of you know, conversion rates, right? I guess I knew about convertions and I knew what converges where. So that's what I did. By the fall semester of that year, I had somewhere between 20 to 30 private students, so I was pretty much in business and you know.

That's pretty much how my journey of piano education started. And then a few years in, I realized, "You know, this is great, you know, this kind of got me in the door, but I want to be able to expand my business in some kind of way where I can, you know, live life in a way that I can enjoy in terms of travel and not be pinned to a particular schedule and location where I have to go to, you know, students homes or I have to be at my house, I want to be able to do more."

And that was where I got the idea of selling courses online. Because I'm like, "Well, if I saw courses, I wouldn't have to be anywhere physically to do the courses, if they're pre recorded,"right?

And then I would be able to reach more people, so then that takes away the need to give my time and be limited to the amount of time that I have to teach. And I'll be able to scale it. So that was how I got into it.

I created my first course in 2015 or so. And it kind of set for a year, so I didn't really start actively promoting it until about maybe later 2016, somewhere around there. And, you know, I was taken under the wing of some really powerful mentorship.

And it's funny because the person who is my mentor, he also had a business where he was teaching people how to play gospel music, you know, gospel piano by ear, doing courses online. And he became so successful that he started teaching other people at the time that I came in how to, you know, do the same thing in terms of courses and whatnot.

So I'm like, oh, this is perfect, because it's someone else who's a musician, teaching piano, what better person to teach me how to get my thing off the ground and somebody doing the same thing that I'm, you know, I'm doing.

So, that worked out. And then, you know, I worked on it edit for a few years. And then I would say, this year, this past year was the first was my first six-figure year. So I'm really excited about that.

And then I guess it was like a natural progression where people are starting to, you know, catch on to what I was doing. And now I got people asking me to help them, you know, with their courses, and, you know, helping them market their stuff. So that was how I got into my second business.

So the first business, I meant to say, is called The Musical Webb, that's where I have my piano courses under. And then The Digital Webb is where I teach other people how to grow their business and grow their courses.

And, I mean, there's different aspects of The Digital Webb. But right now, my focus is helping other people, you know, build their courses, teaching them how to put their curriculum together, and teaching them how to set their course on autopilot when it comes to traffic and scaling.

So that's pretty much you know, where I am now with it.

Jeremy Deighan
First of all, congratulations on your first six-figure core sales that you have. I think that's really awesome. And it goes to show you that if you just keep working at it over time, you're going to get to that point.

I mean, you know, it looks like that you've been working on this business for some time now. And you're starting to see the fruits of that labor. And so I think that's really awesome.

And I also like that you started teaching in person. Which I think everyone I've, you know, I've interviewed a lot of different people. And it always seems like everyone goes about it a different way.

And what I really liked is that you really started kind of grassroots going out and meeting people one on one and teaching them. Do you think that that helped you later on when you started creating your courses, kind of know what to put in your courses?

Ayana Webb
Oh, definitely. Because the students that I had at the time were younger, a lot of them were kids. So you know, obviously, the way you communicate with people, especially with kids is going to be very different than, you know, adults.

So the thing was, I had a curriculum that I started out with when I first started teaching, and then as I got real experience, that curriculum kind of started to shift if that makes sense, you know.

Because we have an idea of how people learn, but then there's the actual way that they learned, and then as a teacher, it's your job to kind of adjust to the way everyone learns differently.

When I got into courses, I said, "You know, I realized that there are common practices that I use when it comes to teaching that tends to work with everyone," even though obviously, each person has a different speed of learning and different many spin-offs when it comes to the lesson plan.

But overall, I had a curriculum that worked, you know, for the first few years of teaching. And I said, "Okay, you know what? If this is a proven concept that people were able to comprehend when I was teaching them using this method, then I could just put this in course form and be able to sell it."

So I think the fact that I was teaching younger students, and the interesting spin was that most of the people who are buying my courses online were older adults. And the feedback that I've gotten was, "You make it seem so easy."

And I'm like, "Well, you know, my first students were kids." So, you know, it kind of has to be that way, so yeah, definitely teaching in person and getting that hands-on experience from different ages and different walks of life has helped me tremendously when it comes to putting a curriculum together that I would be putting out worldwide. So, yeah.

Jeremy Deighan
Awesome. Yeah, very cool. I think that that's important because you know, as I've said in the past is we're experts, and we know our subject matter.

And sometimes, we get into the habit of just going out and just teaching everything that we know without having a system like what you created or having an idea of what the student is actually looking for.

And so I like the one-on-one hand's approach of teaching people first because I feel like you said, you really get to understand where they're struggling what they need help with, and so forth. So that's really awesome.

Now, when you went and put your first course out when you started back in 2015-2016, where did you host that course? Where did you put it, what platform did you put it on? And how were you initially getting people into that course?

Ayana Webb
You know, it's interesting. I started out with Teachable, and then I went from Teachable to Thinkific, and then I went from Thinkific back to Teachable. Actually, no, I lied. First, I started out with Udemy first.

And Udemy gave me such a hard way to go that I said, "You know what, no, I have to have a better platform." So that's how I landed on to Teachable. So Udemy was like the first one because you know, like, when you go on Google, and you're like, "Oh, sell courses online." And then Udemy is like at the time was like the first one to pop up.

You know, again, I realized that their business model just wasn't working for me. So I went to Teachable, which gave me a lot more freedom when it comes to the way that I put my course together having access to my email list, or my student list, you know, just being able to price it the way I want to.

So it gave me a lot more freedom in that area. So that was the reason why I went with Teachable ultimately. And I was kind of I was fiddling with advertising, but I didn't really know what I was doing. So that was one way.

I remember my very first student before I really got into ads like that was, I went to this music conference. And you know, I made some connects there. So this one person I met there she was interested in, you know, doing courses or learning piano, I'm sorry.

And she was my first student. So that was like back in maybe like yet 2015 or so. And then that was me like a month or so after I put the course together. But again, I wasn't like super, super actively promoting it.

Until I would say around September-ish, actually, around this time 2016 because that was when I got like the real scoop on how to do ads properly and how to market it properly.

Jeremy Deighan
Okay, awesome. So you put it up on that platform, you are going to conferences, making connections, and then you start running ads.

Was this Facebook ads, YouTube ads, Google ads are which which ones were you using?

Ayana Webb
At the time, I was doing Facebook ads.

Jeremy Deighan
Okay, so that's pretty awesome. Did you ever do any type of organic growth strategies? Were you putting it on a blog or YouTube or anything like that?

Ayana Webb
You know, whatever organic strategies I was using at the time, I wasn't really too invested in it because I know that organic marketing takes a lot of work. And for me, it just didn't make sense for the price point.

Because with the piano courses I have, they range anywhere between $37 and, you know, $300. So, for me, the math in my head was, well, if it takes me, let's say, you know, five hours a day, to put out one course or to sell one course for maybe $100, I might as well go back to teaching private lessons because I was making more. You know what I mean?

So that was a big reason why I didn't put too much time into organic because it just didn't make any sense. And that's the reason why I said, "You know what, let's just do the ads." You know, part of it because now I can automate the traffic I can save myself some time.

So, you know, as far as organic, I mean, when it comes to organic, the only thing I do organically is like The Digital website because it just makes more sense if I'm getting coaching clients who are paying me, you know, higher ticket.

For me, that's what makes more sense when it comes to doing anything organic because I'm getting a higher return on that against the time that it takes me to market it.

Jeremy Deighan
Right. All right. Okay, cool. And when you were running ads, were you running them straight to your sales page for your course? Or were you doing any kind of opt-in or freebie or anything like that?

Ayana Webb
At the time, I started out with the lead magnet. So the way it was set up, as you know, the conversion was set to the signups, so I was getting maybe like $1, $1.50 per sign up, which is actually pretty good.

And then what I would be advertising is a free video saying, "Hey, you know, I have this three-step video to teach you piano, etc., etc." And then what would happen is when they sign up, it takes them to what's called a video sales letter.

So the video sales letter, we call it VSL, it gives them the three strategies I promised in the freebie or in the ad. And then the second half of that video is what promotes my course, which at the time was like my $99 course, which goes over the fundamentals of learning piano.

So that would be kind of like, the idea is to build an email list, and then let the low hanging fruit the people who would buy my course outright, to offset the ad costs. So that was kind of like the formula.

And then what I would do is once they purchased the course, then I will upsell them into my membership program, which is where the real, sustainable money and the sustainable profit comes from.

Jeremy Deighan
Okay, and when you say membership, you mean a monthly recurring membership?

Ayana Webb
Yeah, I'll be monthly recurring, like $29 a month type of thing.

Jeremy Deighan
Okay, and is that system that you had. Obviously, it worked out to get you to where you are now? Is that the same system you're using now, or have you changed it?

Ayana Webb
I switch back and forth, you know, I don't really stick to one funnel, because obviously, algorithms change and just, you know, behavior changes.

So what I'll do is, and also the platforms change, because I realized that sometimes, you know, one funnel may work on one platform, and another funnel may work on another platform, so it's good to have options.

So I switched between that one. And there's another one that I've been working on, which actually worked really well, I call it, a tripwire funnel, where instead of sending them to a freebie, and then sending them to $100 product, what I would do is in the ad, I would offer a $37 starter kit course which is really just the first two modules of my full course. Right?

So what I would do is I would advertise the tripwire course right in the ad. So I will do a video ad saying, "Hey, you know, I have this starter kit course for piano those who want to learn piano in a short as a week, you know or want to learn sight reading in short as a week, I have this starter kit course that's instantly accessible. If you want to enroll, you can enroll today for $37."

And then what they'll do is they'll go straight to checkout. Sometimes I'll send them to the sales page. But if I'm selling the course on the ad, for the most part, I'll just send them to checkout, and then from there, once they purchase, then I would, you know, do the same thing where I would upsell them into the membership program.

Jeremy Deighan
So let's move into talking a little bit more about some of this automation that you know how to do so we were talking beforehand and you said automation is a big part of your business.

So thinking back to, say, the people who are just getting started on their course creation journey or maybe they have some courses and they have some sales, but they don't have automation implemented yet.

Can you talk a little bit of the importance of automation and some things that you're doing in your business to automate your business so that you can alleviate a little more of your time and focus more on the important tasks?

Ayana Webb
Yeah, definitely I think that a lot of people get sold on this idea that oh if you do courses online, you'll be able to scale your income and you'll be able to, you know.

Because a lot of coaches what they're doing now is they realize that they've been sold on this idea that oh you can make you know quit your job and you can make 10k months in 20k months but no one gives them the fine print that, "Hey, you have to maintain a certain number of clients and you have to put in X number of hours a day to make that 10k per month or 20k per month," right?

And then once they realize that they've basically quit their nine to five job just to put themselves into a another nine to five job which is their own business, and they go, "Well you know, what was the point?"

So when it comes to courses and now people are going into courses, and you know thinking, "Okay, well I can scale my income and make more money." And then they don't realize that once again two courses that they still have to put in time to promote the course, right?

So their time goes from doing client work to like I was mentioning before having to spend time to promote their course organically because they've been told all they have to sell the course organically in order to validate, you know, your course topic, which I understand that, but there are automated ways to do that, too, right?

Yeah, you may be making you more money, or maybe not. But still you're spending hours a day, having to go into Facebook groups and having to build your email list. And having, you see what I'm saying?

So the limit of time that it takes that you have to promote that also limits your ability to scale your income, even when it comes to courses, right? So that's the reason why I say if you're putting a course together, you definitely want to consider automating your traffic.

Because then not only do you free up your time from having to do the work yourself, but those tools like Facebook ads, like YouTube ads, even other ad platforms, like Pinterest, and LinkedIn, which I haven't explored yet.

But the point is, those platforms and those tools are able to carry a much bigger load for you than what you'd be able to do yourself. You know, there's no way that I will be able to scale my business six figures if I didn't automate my traffic.

And even when I was making those six figures, I didn't have to spend a single minute of my day having to promote it because I had this ad that was running for me. And I was there was making sales for me because I didn't have to physically be there to even make the transaction people were just doing it on their own.

So I didn't really have to be hands-on when it came to organic marketing. I was able to go out, and you know, have coffee, but I don't drink coffee, but you get I'm saying I can run errands, I can chill at home, watch TV, or even, you know, travel, I just came back from traffic and conversion summit.

And even when I was there, I was still making money even when I wasn't actively promoting anything. So that's the reason why automation is important because the whole idea of the key to scaling is to for that scalability to not be dependent on the amount of time that you have to take to promote your course or promote your products organically.

So that's the reason why I advocate for automating traffic, but not just the traffic part. But also the business model, too. So that's where courses come in, where if, you know, there's some people who prefer doing live courses, which is fine.

But if you want to really scale, you definitely want to have some kind of pre-recorded product where people can kind of just go through on their own, and doesn't require you to tend to it. So automation from the traffic side of automation from the business model side can really help you scale.

Jeremy Deighan
Okay, awesome. So you hit a little bit on you know, the importance of running ads, which kind of helps automate your revenues and your in your sales.

What other components of automation should an online course creator have in their business, what are some other aspects you feel would be important to automate so that you can do some of the things that you're talking about?

Ayana Webb
You know, I'm glad you asked that because I was just kind of focusing on the front end part, but definitely the back end too.

So when it comes to if you're building an email list, especially if you're building a buyer list, from your ads, you definitely want to have the email follow-up part of it automated too.

So, there's programs that allow you to do that. I think MailChimp is kind of starting to get into automation. But the folks that I use is Keap they were, you know, formerly known as Infusionsoft.

But I know that there's other platforms like HubSpot, I think there's Active Campaign with mailer light. So there's a lot of email marketing platforms that allow you to set up automated email follow-ups.

And one thing to keep in mind is that as people go through your automated follow-up, when I say automated follow up, I mean, like, when they sign up for your, your freebie, you know, in the ad, they should automatically be added to a sequence of emails that they'll get over time, based on the time and the day that they sign up to your form, right?

So it automatically be set to that person's customized day and time that they enter into that funnel or enter into that follow up. And to take things a step further. You want to have an email follow-up this interactive and will send them content based on their behavior, right?

So I don't think a lot of people really spend too much time doing that. I think a lot of people, they just send them to like, oh, here's a three to five email follow-up, right? And everyone gets those same three to five emails within the same window of time after they sign up.

But to take it a step further, if you see that someone is interacting with your emails a certain way, then you might want to send them other content based on their level of interaction.

Like for example, you may want to this is what I learned too is that you want to reward them for consuming your content. Or if they're not consuming your content, you want to send them like you know, email reminders and say, "Hey, you know, I noticed that you haven't checked out the video or checked out my X, Y and Z, I want to re invite you to check it out?

So there's automated ways to do that as well. That way, you won't have to keep track of "Oh, who opened this email and who clicked on that email?" That's actually one of the reasons why I like Keap, because Keap specializes in those kinds of things where you can apply tags and certain behaviors, if this person does this, then send them to this part of the sequence.

So automation on the back end if not more important when it comes to because that's what you're practice is going to come from. So if you're building your list, and if you're not doing anything with that list, then you're leaving a lot of money on the table when it comes to, you know, allowing your business to grow.

So that's, you know, when it comes to, like I said, that list, you want to automate, nurturing that list into reintroducing them to your products, or even introducing them to new products as well. So, that's another component of automation that needs to be implemented.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, I like that a lot. I set up a system and Active Campaign because Active Campaign allows you to get pretty technical with the way that you have different automation. And if then, else statements and stuff like that.

And so I was able to basically set it up, were kind of like what you're saying, if someone doesn't click on an email in seven days, they get put into a bucket where I can track them. And then, if it's 30 days, I can maybe send them an email follow-up.

So I really like that aspect that you're talking about. Because like you said, a lot of people just have that very generic follow up sequence, you know, like you said, three to five day follow up sequence, and then the email goes cold after that, because no one's following up with them, or checking on them or seeing where they're at in the process. So I really like that.

So you have your email follow up sequence, when someone opts in to your lead magnet, or your course, you're following up with them. You have your online course, which in itself is kind of an automated system, like you said, instead of a live course you have training that someone can go through that course.

And then you have the revenue side where maybe you're setting up ads or something of that nature, that's kind of more on autopilot, and you don't have to be so much in the forefront of going out and finding leads.

Is there any other aspects of automation that you can talk about that would help out course creators?

Ayana Webb
The traffic is definitely a big part of automation, in terms of getting your course out to brand new people. There's also the retargeting aspect of it, which you can also use ads for the business model.

In terms of how you set up your business where even if you're getting new customers, you're not being the bottleneck of the business, because you've made the business model where it requires your time and your attention to actually provide the service.

So you definitely want to have something that's self paced on the end of the customer on the end of the student. And then like I said, the email follow up and the back end of it should also be automated to I know that people do automated webinars.

I'm not quite sure if automated webinars is like a thing that's frowned upon lately. I've been hearing a lot of mixed things about automated webinars, but I know that I know people who have used that tool that have worked well. So if you want to explore do automated webinars, that could be a tool as well.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, sounds like there's different camps on that one. The people who say that it's burned out and isn't working as well as it used to and then you have some people who are still really gung ho about it and just say, it's really awesome.

So that one's kind of a tricky one. It seems like you know, Facebook Lives and kind of live video is kind of the dominant force right now, I would say but then, like you said, that's not as automated as something like a webinar.

Talking about the ads because you mentioned retargeting. So when someone is going to set up their ads, can you talk briefly about especially for someone who's kind of newer to ads? And maybe is getting started?

Could you talk about maybe a good system for setting up ads? What would be some of the metrics that you're trying to track? What are the types of conversions that you're creating? And then if you could briefly talk about retargeting because you mentioned that?

Ayana Webb
You know, it's really tough to say that, "Oh, this has to be the benchmark for, you know, this KPI or metric key performance indicator. And this has to be the conversion," because those numbers vary based on A what you're offering, B how much we're really the biggest metric is how much you're willing to spend per new customer, right?

And then you kind of have to know what your back-end numbers are in terms of, you know, average what that customer is gonna be worth over time. So really, if you have, the number that matters to me the most is the cost per acquisition.

So, however the other numbers fall in terms of click through rate, conversion rate, you know, I try not to focus so much on those numbers because sometimes, I'll get so caught up in one number, but then I don't see that there's another metric that's making up for that number that's causing my cost per acquisition to be at or below where I want it to be.

And you know, it's tough because sometimes, especially when you're first starting out the number can be a bit all over the place, you're going to have to wait for it to optimize.

But my advice is that you have to know what's the most that you're willing to spend per customer. You know, I'm not sure if you heard that term, he or she who's willing to spend the most to acquire customer wins.

That's really where this is. I think people are so concerned about having the cheapest lead or having the cheapest switch. It's good. But if it compromises the quality of your list and your buyer list, sometimes that can be detrimental on the back end.

So when you're going into advertising, you want to know what you're advertising in terms of. Is it a freebie? Is it a paid product? And then you kind of have to know up to What number are you willing to spend for each new customer to come in that way, you'll go, "Okay, well, yeah, even if I lose money at the beginning, I know that this person" and that's the other number that you need to know is your customer lifetime value.

So average, what is your customer going to be worth over time, as you send them through nurturing, as you send them to higher-end products and future products. Let's say if your average customer lifetime value is like $1,000, right? And then you go, "Well, I'm willing to spend up to, let's say, $200 to acquire a customer." And even if it costs you, you know, let's say if you only make $100 on the front end, which means you'd be losing $100 if you're going to spend up to $200.

So if it cost you $200 to get that new customer, but you only made $100 that same day, and you're willing to lose at $100, because you know that in let's say, you know, 30 days or 60 days that one customer is going to turn from 100 to 1000.

So I think a lot of people who go into advertising, they think that they need to get the results right away in terms of profit. And if it doesn't work that way, then oh, the ad is not working. But they're not seeing the big picture here. And they're leaving, again, a lot of money on the table when they approach ads that way.

So the idea of ads when it comes to new people, it's not about making a profit. It's about getting customers that will be worth more than what your ad spend is over the course of, you know, those few weeks or a few months in the future. And when it comes to retargeting, that's another powerful tool to help make up for maybe any ad spend or any loss on the front end.

Because if you're able to take that list, that you build over time. Let's say if you build a list of 5000 people or 5000 subscribers, that's not a warm audience. So if you take that email list and run it through a Facebook ad, and run an ad to that list on Facebook, then chances are your conversions gonna be higher, your chances of getting a profits will be much higher.

Because these are people whp are not new to you, they're familiar with their products in their higher, there's a higher chance for them to buy your stuff versus someone who's just coming off the street.

So that's the importance of retargeting ads is because, number one, you can get much, much higher profit that way. And you can also alleviate some of the ad costs on from cold traffic, so, you know. There's multiple purposes for retargeting, but those would be the two things that pop in my head.

Jeremy Deighan
Awesome. I think you explained both of those very well.

I was thinking I was doing the numbers in my head, as you were saying that. So if you had, say, a monthly subscription of $97 a month, and you know that someone generally stays with you 12 months, and you're gonna make over, like you said $1,000.

But in that first month, you spent $200 on ads. To acquire that person, you're going to have a negative balance of $103. But in that second month, you're going to break even, and then in that third month, you are going to be profitable.

Ayana Webb

Jeremy Deighan
I think that the way you explain that is really awesome because not many people explain it that well or talk about that. So that makes a lot of sense. Because like you said, I think when people get into ads, they want to, you know, be profitable instantly. You know, as you mentioned.

You want to, you know, spend $5 and make $1,000 right away. And that's just not the way that ads work. So I appreciate that. I think you explained it really, really well. And hopefully, that helps some people out there understand that if they do get into ads, that should be more of the mindset that you should be taking going into it.

Ayana Webb
Yeah, definitely, especially now that ads are getting more expensive. You know, maybe five or ten years ago, you could probably look forward to getting a profit, or you know, possibly but even then, it's still a short term thinking.

So even when it comes to ads being more expensive, as you know, people are now kind of going crazy over this whole iOS update and algorithm changes and whatnot. But even with all that going on the whole idea of thinking long term in terms of you know, increasing the lifetime value of your customer.

And even if you have to take a loss in the beginning, that still applies because that you know. This is one thing that was talked about at the traffic and conversion summit is all the multiple sessions that we're talking about the iOS update.

A lot of them said the same thing, and it's like, don't worry about the iOS app. Don't worry about your customer lifetime value because then even if you lose money, you're gonna make that back.

Jeremy Deighan
Well, thank you so much. I think you explained all that very well.

And just thinking about the person who's just getting started, if you could go back five years, or even 10 years and go talk to yourself, and when you first started on this journey.

And just thinking about the person who's listening to this podcast right now, who wants to make a course or the early stages in their course development, and marketing and sales, what would be a good advice that you could give to that person?

Ayana Webb
Definitely do your research. Find a mentor, that was one thing that really changed in my situation. You know, don't go alone, because you'll end up losing a lot more money.

You think that you're saving money, not hiring someone to help you. But the reality is, by not hiring someone, or not investing in some level of help, you're actually losing more money than you would be if you were to just, you know, get that help and save yourself some time and get your results sooner.

So that would be like, number one advice that I would have.

Jeremy Deighan
Awesome. I love it. And just thinking about your future business going forward? Where do you see yourself in the next couple years? Five years or 10 years?

Ayana Webb
Ah, that's a good question. I would say. Definitely, my goal is to hit seven figures. That's my next goal in the next 12 months or so. So I'm really looking forward to that.

Jeremy Deighan
Well, you're gonna do it, I know it. You're putting out some great content. And I would love for everyone on the podcast to come check you out and see what you got going on. And so, where can they do that if they want to find out more about you?

Ayana Webb
Absolutely. So my website is On there, you'll get to see a lot of resources. And I even have a blog on there on how to you know, grow your business.

But for those who want to get into courses, I do have a couple of options on there. Like some courses, there's one I just released called The Automated Course Creator that goes over everything that I just discussed in terms of how to put your course together.

But also how to market your course in a way where your traffic is automated, your business models are automated, and your email marketing is automated. So that course goes over all of that step by step.

Jeremy Deighan
Okay, cool. Yeah, I was looking at your website before we got on the call. And it's a great website. There's a lot of good content on there. It looks like you've got your blog, you've got courses, and you even provide some coaching. And so it sounds like if someone wanted to work with you, they could do that, too.

Ayana Webb
Yes, absolutely. So if you go to the coaching tab, if you want to get someone to help you, which would be me, you know, you can always go on there. There is a form on there. We can schedule a call. That way, we can do a free, you know, consult, and then we can see if we're a good fit, and then we go from there.

Jeremy Deighan
Perfect. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. I think this has been a wealth of information. And I just appreciate your time and sharing all your knowledge with the listeners out there.

Ayana Webb
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me again and inviting me on here as well.

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