LearnWorlds CEO Panos Siozos Explains the Innovative Features of the Course Platform

Jeremy Deighan
What's up, everyone. Thanks for coming on the show today, we have an awesome guest with us panneau co sews from LearnWorlds, who is going to talk about a wonderful online course platform that he has helped build.

I've checked out this platform before. It's amazing. It has a lot of functionality and features. And so I'm really excited to dive into this topic today and hear more about that platform. How're you doing today?

Panos Siozos
Fine, Jeremy, thanks for having me on your show.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, definitely. This is gonna be a great episode. And it's really great to have someone like yourself, who can really come on and explain the benefits of using the platform of LearnWorlds and what it has to offer to other course creators who are listening right now.

And so I'm really excited to have you here today. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. But before we get started, if you wouldn't mind, just kind of give us a little backstory of what you were doing before you began creating this product.

And how did you get into the online course world? What evolved you into that? And how did you end up creating LearnWorlds?

Panos Siozos
Gladly. So, I and my two co-founders, we go back in e-learning, way back like more than 20 years, we studied computer science together. And then all of us did postgraduate studies in e-learning.

So we have been creating designing elearning platforms and e-learning applications since 1999. So we launched our first platform back in 1999. We were doing that in an academic setting.

So as you can imagine, we were creating very innovative products, but testing them with very limited audiences, mainly students, publishing a few papers, and attending conferences.

But at that point, we had nobody around who could push us into an intrapreneurial direction and push us into creating an actual commercial product that people could use.

We completed our PhDs, I have a PhD in educational assessment, we worked in different capacities there, mainly as researchers. So after a few years, we always have these, each of getting the state of the art of e-learning and putting it out the hands of actual teachers and creators and helping students become much more successful in everything that they want to do.

So around 2011, we came together and started thinking about what is the next big thing where we could have an impact. And at that point, we realized that by creating a wide label platform that people could use to create their own online schools and start doing direct to consumer e-learning.

Like offering their courses directly to consumers without an intermediary, without the marketplace, being in control of their own audience and their own content. This could be really empowering course creators.

And this is how we started. So in 2014, we launched LearnWorlds, and haven't looked back since.

Jeremy Deighan
Nice, that's absolutely awesome. And this is a really cool looking platform. I've checked it out along with some others.

And it has some really great features, and you continue to improve it over time. And I know that you have some really neat features that you're launching now that we'll get into in a little bit.

You know, this is about the time when you launched this platform that I started getting into online courses. And my first foray into online courses was with a marketplace. It was what the Udemy platform.

I didn't know anything about online courses. Someone had mentioned that you could teach online, upload a video and make money from it. And that sounded cool to me. So that's what I did.

I put some courses up on the Udemy marketplace. And it was successful. But over time, I found that I wanted to get off the marketplace to have a little more control myself with my own business and my own online courses.

But I would like to hear from you. Why did you go this route of doing more of a white label direct to consumer type product versus creating a marketplace like a Udemy or Skillshare?

Panos Siozos
Udemy was amazing in opening up the market and convincing or helping a lot of people understand that they can become course sellers and get their own knowlage everything that they know, package it into an amazing online course and start selling it.

And obviously, back in the day, it was very important to also have the power of the marketplace like the ready made audience that you couldn't own your own or create and cultivate.

But I guess it was at that point 2013-2014 that we started listening to core sellers, and realized how much they're missing by not being in control of their own destinies and their own audiences. So it's not a dig against Udemy.

But it's something that all marketplaces over time, they tend to get control, change the terms, you know, unilaterally start getting a bigger part of the share. Initially is very tempting for a new core seller to go in there and start selling.

Over time, newbies have it even more difficult. So if you were among the first to go into Udemy, it was a great. It was like Eldorado, you know, green patch pastures, you can just go in there and start selling your courses.

But increasingly, it started becoming very, very crowded. So we started thinking about it in terms of having a huge supermarket with rows upon rows of produce, where your course even if it's amazing, it's probably stacked like a can of tuna, somewhere along hundreds of similar other products.

So how can you stand out, if you're not a celebrity, if you don't already have an audience, if you're not like an expert in your field? How you can stand out? So the small guys are really pushed to the bottom, it's a race to the bottom in terms of prices.

The marketplace always tries to add more to do more offers, and and you end up getting very, very small amounts of money for the job that you put into your courses.

And we said that instead of creating another supermarket, we want to help the creator get create build his own or her own delicatessen. Aplace that they control, it's, you know, it's it's small, they can put all their passion, all their creativity, they know their audience.

So they probably need a different approach in their marketing, in their design, in how they do their own courses. So let's bring them the state of the art of elearning. Let's allow them to create an even better Udemy and never better Coursera or MOOC or whatever these were the platforms that were like working back in the day.

But it can be their own, they will be able to get their own domain name, they will be able to get 100% of the profits, they will be able to get all the emails of their customers, which will help them further down, like to increase their audience grow their audience.

So we help them create their own business in the books. If we put it in today's terms, like what is happening today in E-commerce, if Amazon was the equivalent in in E-commerce, we are the Shopify of online courses.

So it's a growing thing, we give you the tools, so that you don't have to worry about the tech, you don't have to worry about plugins and about making things work. It's like seamless and super user friendly technology that always includes the state of the art of what is happening out there in online courses.

But it's your own. So, you set it up, you bring in your own audience, you bring in your own content, and you own your little knowlage business in a box.

Jeremy Deighan
Nice. I love that that's a great answer. I think you define that very well. A lot of what you said is a lot of the realizations that I came to, as I moved along in my journey of finding out that you don't always have access to the student information.

Which really became a sticking point for me was the having that control, you know, being able to run my business the way that I would like to, and having the ability to have the control of reaching out to the students, maintaining the billing information and the ability to adapt the course the way that I see fit.

And so the things that you said really hit me really hard, because that is kind of what I realized as I went along. So I really enjoyed all the points that you made there.

So as you begin creating this course, in the beginning, how did you go about it? What were those early days like? What was it like when you first put this platform out there?

And then how were you getting people to come to this platform and show them that you had the solution to solve these problems that course creators were facing?

Panos Siozos
We had to do lots of learning ourselves in the beginning. We were more scientists and engineers when we started than we were business people.

So it took us about one and a half to two years to create the ultimate betaversion or the ultimate prototype as we had envisioned it like to we wanted to put all their elearning expertise into the platform. So we were working on the platform for more than one and a half years before putting it out there.

So initially, we had to learn how to talk to customers, understand their needs, and be much faster in how we adapt to market needs. And we were a bootstrapped business, we only were working with our own money with zero marketing budget effectively. It was a grueling process to try to get the first customer and the second customer and then 10 customers and 100 customers.

But we were fast learners, we started adapting very fast. It was also, I guess, a quite interesting and happy accident that we couldn't find much traction in our own country. Because we started from Greece, or in Europe, it was amidst the economic crisis, and people were a bit reluctant to test a new product that was coming out of Greece.

It looked for to them kind of dodgy. But I have to admit that the US market, which was so much more mature, so much more willing to test, an innovative platform that work that had like already some amazing features that the competition couldn't offer.

So we were very lucky to have our very first customers from the US market, who were very demanding, but people knew what they wanted in the product. So we started iterating, very, very fast.

And to this day, we are by far, the fastest developing platform. So when other platforms have five or six major releases per year, we have something like 15, or 20. So the rate at which we incorporate new features, and I guess this goes back to our e-learning background, and how deeply we understand the space and also how fast we keep learning from our customers.

So the product keeps evolving at a rapid pace. And this is required because as we've seen with COVID, the kind of market that we have out there during COVID and post COVID, it's probably going to look much much differently than we was like three or four years ago.

So we need to keep pushing the envelope, understanding what the post COVID state of learning will be, and keep providing features and facilities that people need today.

Not only to improve the e-learning, but also to adapt to novel business models and find more ways to get value from their online course content.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, you guys definitely have a lot of great rich features. Looking at your website and going through the features list and the different plans, you have just a plethora of different things that you offer that other platforms don't offer.

And so one question that I did want to ask you is during this time, say between 2014 15,16, even up until now, there have been, you know, multiple course platforms that have launched.

And we've had, you know, the Teachables, Thinkific, we've had the WordPress plugins that allow you to have courses, we have the all in one solutions like Kartra, NewZenler, and Kajabi.

So there's been an array of different platforms that have come out in recent years, you know, you mentioned that one of the benefits of going with your platform is definitely the rate of the new features that you have that you're always expanding, and including.

But what are some other differentiations of your platform versus going with one of these other platforms?

Because I know that one of the big questions that I get asked many times a week is, "What platform should I go with?" And so if I wanted to promote, say, LearnWorlds, to my audience, what would be some of the key features that you would recommend I say to them to help move them into that direction?

Panos Siozos
Yes, great question. First of all, I would like to say that we love what of the other platforms are building because I think that the rate for innovation and acceleration and the push that all of us as a group, let's say of course platform creators get from what the others are building is amazing.

And this is great for the customers, obviously, who keep getting like new features and, and amazing tools to help them with their with their business. So sometimes it feels like we see a new course platform every week.

But this also validates how hot the space is, and how people need new platforms and need tools to adapt to what they believe. So I don't think that anybody has, like solved the problem.

We need to keep working and keep offering amazing tools to our, to our customers. So anything I might say here, you know, it's not definitely it's not a dig against other platforms. We love what they build, where we try to differentiate.

And I think, again, this goes back to our research background and how deeply we understand e-learning. We're probably the only online course platform that has been created by researchers and PhDs on e-learning.

I'm not trying to say who we are, you know, or say something against the others. But it's back to our background. In the beginning, this was even, you know, a drawback because we had a very complex platform that not everybody could understand, or we didn't have initially in the first couple of years, the business acumen to promote our platform even further.

But I think now it really shines the research background that we have in some of the tools that we have, including the platform. One example I guess, is all the content authoring tools that we offer in the platform.

For example, we have An amazing interactive video editor, which is built into the platform. Which means you can take a traditional, linear and sometimes even boring video, I guess we're all guilty of that ourselves.

And with just a click of few few buttons, just like editing a PowerPoint, you can add interactive elements on top of your videos.

So you can add automated transcripts, and you can add points of reference. And you can add frames, and you can add pointers, and you can add arrows, and you can even add quizzes on top of your videos. And it's a very easy tool to use.

So people get their video, which I mean, they had in another platform, perhaps, but it wasn't working, or they wanted to do more, but they couldn't, because they didn't have access to the special tools, or they couldn't afford an expert video editor

And now within LearnWorlds, they can do it easily themselves. So they just upload the video. And just to give you a couple of examples, things that we have seen our customers doing, like training videos.

Somebody who wants to show how an exercise is performed, whether it's like yoga, pilates, or somebody playing tennis and trying to, you know, nail a great forehand or whatever. And you can pause the video and you can put a nice frame on the hand that shows how you hold the racket correctly.

So all these little things which sound small, but really provide an amazing learner experience to the ultimate student and customer. So if the student is satisfied, and if they like what they say. And if they see something that they could never find in another platform or in Udemy, then your courses really stand out.

This is the extra edge that you need. Or another example that we've seen from customers building, again super easily with our tool is, let's say a video teaching a conflict resolution scenario within a company.

So there's a fight and then you have two people talking and the video pauses. And a question pops up that asks you how you should respond in this situation like a B, C, and based on the answers, you can move to a different point of the of the video and see a different scenario being played out.

So again, you take your super easy video, something you that you showed perhaps with your phone, you upload it there, and you can do some amazing offering. And this is just one example of what is possible with a plain platform, cloud based, no special tool required or anything else.

I guess another example of what we're able to do is something that I guess we are renowned of is our website builder, which is an amazing tool where you don't just get the e-learning aspect of the platform that's obviously there, the LMS part is there.

But with LearnWorlds, you get the full website builder. So you don't need the WordPress, you don't need weeks, you don't need to hire a designer, you don't need to be an expert or you know, have any even any sense about design, you start with a ready made templates.

And with just point and click, you can create some amazingly looking website. All the customer facing pages of your online school. And for that matter e-learning compromised and ecommerce optimized and mobile optimized, you can just get them super easily with the tool.

So this is a again, these are like two examples of what can be done in the content offering and the website creation aspect of the platform. And I would invite people who have like for struggling, perhaps they're not happy with their current tool, or they're looking now for for a solution.

Just give it a try and see what can be done. Like right out of the box. I think being able to provide this all in one functionality, the website building the LMS part and the E-commerce part can be super helpful for somebody who doesn't want to deal with the tech and just need something that works great for them. So they can keep doing what they're good at, like creating their content and selling more of their online courses.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, I love it. This is really great. And whenever I get that question, you know, "What platform should I choose?" My answer is usually that it's going to be dependent on the needs of what you want to have or what you need to have for your business.

So I don't feel like there's any one platform that is the perfect solution for everyone. I feel like it's going to be dependent on that business owner or entrepreneur or course creator to say, "What are you looking for a platform? Do you need to build websites? Well, if you don't have a website, and you would like to have a website and a blog, and these things and going with this type of platform would be great, because that's included in there."

I really love the fact that you have such a versatile video editor that you can add those elements. And because some platforms, it's just you upload the video, and whatever's in the video is what you get.

But the fact that you have the ability to make adjustments to those videos, I think is really cool. And this conditional, is it quizzes that you were talking about where you could ask questions in the middle of the video. Is that like a quiz element?

Panos Siozos
Yes, yes, it's a quiz element on top of the video.

Jeremy Deighan
And it's conditional, which means you can based on your selection, you can send them to other parts of the video?

Panos Siozos
Mm hmm. Yes.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, that that is a really great feature, I wasn't aware of that one. That sounds to me like you could find some really cool features to put in your course, and utilize that type of elements.

Another one that you were talking about before we hopped on the podcast was the new mobile experience that you are offering course creators.

So could you take a moment to talk about this new feature that you have for people to be able to have a mobile app, I believe that's what you were saying?

Panos Siozos
Yes. And here's again, a place where we are doing something completely different than the other platforms like most platforms, create their own branded app. So there is an app, let's say or a LearnWorlds app.

But we know that the top core sellers, they don't need that. They own their own app. So for me, it's as a business as a platform is always great when people like use your platform with my name. But I know that what they need is to have an app with their name on this is something that we have been working gradually.

For the past three years, we have been like handcrafting, individual apps for some of our major customers. But now we have automated the process. So anybody from within LearnWorlds they can get their own branded mobile application in both iOS and Android.

And this will also include in-app purchases, and push notification. So it's no longer the LearnWorlds app or the X-platform app. This is your school app with your name, it shows in the app store like built by you. And this can now be found in the app stores.

So our platform, of course, is even the basic version of the platform is of course mobile friendly. Anyone with a mobile browser can access a course and consume a course from a tablet from a mobile device. This already works perfectly.

But we know that there are huge advantages in having your own branded mobile app, which can be easily reached with a few clicks by more than 2 billion App Store users globally.

And so then your online school can be just one tap away from a person's mobile device. And in this day and age, I think we all understand how important this can be, especially if you can complement this offering with push notifications.

Imagine an offer going out to people in their mobile phones, or a new course that you just launched, or a new feed section, whatever that was just unleashed and you and you send it out to people and people being able to just click and purchase your online course.

So we believe that this is a game changer. We already I mean, we have a limit on the number of hubs that we can create every month. So there's a huge waiting list right now.

But we keep automated because it's not just the automated process. But it's also the quality assurance, making sure that each app works perfectly. So we are in this process of launching more and more apps for our customers.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, that's totally cool. I love this. I can see a lot of benefits of having the ability to have a white label type app where, you know, it's the Online Course Igniter application with my courses on there versus using the name of the other company, you know.

Especially, like you said, the ability to purchase inside of the app is really neat. So if you're someone who's creating multiple courses, like if you have a cooking school, and you know, each week or each month, you're releasing a new course.

The ability to send notifications and say, "Hey, check out our new vegetable cooking course" or something like that, and the person can go in and purchase that. That's really great. That's a really cool innovation. I really enjoy that.

So one question that I want to have. And this is kind of a personal thing for me, is, whenever there's a company that is promoting a lot of new features like this, who's constantly innovating and coming out with these new features, it's great to be able to supply these to the market, and have the ability to meet the needs of the customers such as yourself.

But one issue that I always have with is is the fear of software bloat. So many features come out that some things kind of get lost in the shuffle, or that the attention of one feature goes away when a company starts focusing on a new feature.

And so how are you handling that? How are you making sure that as you keep releasing new features and keep adding to the platform?

That the the program isn't going to become too convoluted or bloated, as to dissuade this person who's creating courses? Or that you're still keeping focus on the things that you know, really built this company to begin with?

Panos Siozos
It's a great question. And this is something that it's constantly on our mind. As you mentioned before, like there are lots of platforms out there, like different platforms are good, perhaps for different people.

And I have to say that different platforms are good for different stages of where you are in selling courses. Whether you're just starting out or whether you are like advanced and you have like tens of thousands of customers, you might need to switch to a different platform.

What we have managed to build. And again, I have to mention our e-learning background because my my co founder has a PhD in educational UI and UX with tons of research and published research on this.

So we've managed to keep the balance of having a platform that can both serve the newbie course creator who is just starting out, and who would be terrified of having something like an interactive video of something that is like very, very advanced.

And also we're able to handle schools who run with more than 100,000 or 200,000. Students with dozens or even in some cases, hundreds of courses. And we have manners, these balance, all these features are layered, and they're layered, both in terms of like the pricing and the plan that you have access to.

But all these are optional things that you can keep adding into the platform. So I wouldn't recommend to somebody who's just starting out to start working with interactive video, even though it sounds you know, super exciting. And it's like everybody wants to have the top.

I mean, if it's your first time, perhaps you you should start with something that is more basic, and make sure that it works. And this is why we're trying very hard for the online course, to just work right out of the box.

And we have people who started a trial with us, and were able to start selling their first course in two days. I mean, they had the videos ready, they just have to, you know, upload them they have the content.

But you can go with a very basic setup. And we will send you announcements about new features and exciting things about these are things that you can keep, you can keep disregarding.

We also are aware of this issue of like new features, competition, and people wanting like they always want an all-in-one platform, they're trying to get the one tool that will help them you know, replace all the dozens of tools that they use.

Especially in the marketing aspect, because you might need a different tool as a CRM, and then you might need integrations and then you might need this. And then you might need that.

Or let's say you have a WordPress site, and you end up working with 50 plugins, and then one of them crashes, and then your entire site is gone. So we are mindful that people try to get like an all in one solution, and be the one tool that they will need.

Yes, if they're more advanced, they will be able to complement it with integrations that we offer, but we try to be the only thing that they will ever need. It's a tight balance.

We layer these features so that the new features don't add into the complexity of what somebody who has more basic needs. A prosumer, who is not running a huge school would need. This is a very tight balance, I think we still manage to be at a quite optimal situation.

Jeremy Deighan
I guess the next question that I had for you is this is going to drift a little bit from your platform and just touch a little on the marketing side.

Because I know that you work with many course creators out there and you have probably had conversations with them and talk to them and help them with their businesses.

And so I wanted to hear from you, someone who is kind of starting out and they have an idea for the course maybe have their outline in their videos and they want to go and put the course up on the platform.

And they get it up there and they get it published. But now they need to sell it. Do you have any recommendations on how a person can market that course? How they can go about selling it?

Or do you have anything you recommend on on the best way to to build an audience? Or the correct procedures that you should take into helping someone sell their course once they've put it up on the platform?

Panos Siozos
This is one of their top pain points, let's say that's our first time course creators customers face we try to avoid being in this situation. Sometimes we have customers coming to us, and they've spent six months or one year building an amazing online course.

They invested so much time and they invested so much money in some cases like hiring, you know, experts and video editors and whatnot and actors to stage and then shoot their videos. And then they come and say, "Okay, we have an amazing course. How can we sell it?

And we say, "Oh, this is like putting the cart in front of the horse." Building your audience should be the first thing to do. Even if you're just starting out. If you have an idea about an online course that might be ready in one year from now, you should start building your audience today.

So you can postpone building your course. But you can never postpone building your audience. And this can start from a blog post, it can start from a Twitter account, an Instagram ad account, a YouTube account, it can be your existing clientele, the people that you talk to in a in a meetup or a in a in a space where you meet in a physical space.

But you have to have the seeds, the roots of your audience. If you start with an audience of 10, this is something that you can grow. And over time, we learned that some of the best successes that we've seen with the platform is by people who pre-sell courses that don't even exist.

And there is only, you know, an amazing idea, a great structure, and an amazing intro video or the first chapter, let's say of that course, and people go out there, but they have an audience.

They start pre-selling their courses, which means that they are able to validate the demand for their courses, they get even some funds that definitely motivate them and give them you know, the drive and the impetus to continue and building their course.

And these were the courses that had the most success, people who started with just an idea, an intro video, and a smaller, bigger audience pre-sold or pre-launch their course, validated the demand for this for this course and then went out to spend three, six months whatever to create the complete the complete course.

So instead of going full in, you know, creating all the content, try to think about where your eventual students will be? Where do they spend their time? Is it social media? Is it somewhere else? Is it a specific community business community? You know your audience.

So that's something that a marketplace like Udemy doesn't know. Udemy might have like a few 100 million people in there. Sure, they might also have some students for you. But if you manage to build your own niche, and your own community, starting with a community can be always an amazing idea.

This is where you can bring your content and create an amazing flywheel. And this is another department where usually LearnWorlds with its features offers significant advantages because the platform includes a built-in community.

So instead of sending people over to Facebook, and where they will be heavily bombarded with ads and where you will probably lose them in a few minutes, you can create your own community within your school hosted by LearnWorlds.

Where people can like join, comment, they can attend free courses, they can jump into discussions, contribute user generated content, like questions and answers and stuff like that.

So you keep them under your control in your own property, in your own digital property. So this is the start of an amazing community. And an amazing flywheel that will keep on bringing revenue and attention back to the content that you create.

And what we're trying to do is we're trying to learn from all the best tactics that our customers are using. The most successful ones or the most innovative, the most interesting ones. And we always republish this content.

And we do an immense number of webinars and challenges to help our customers into use the best tactic. So we produce lots of content, we try to disseminate all this knowledge or this cool ideas about pre launch, or pre selling or where are new places where you can source leads for your school.

We always try to package this information and include this into the training. Marketing tactics continually evolve. So we need to keep on learning. And we need to keep redistributing this knowledge back to our community of customers and users to help them be more successful in what they do.

Jeremy Deighan
Nice. That's wonderful. I just love your way of going about everything. Basically, your mission statement to help people to help them, teach others and provide that education in this way, using this platform that makes it very easy for them to do.

You know, you talked about pre-selling courses, that's something that I teach my clients now is to go through that process because you really help build a better experience for that course.

So you know, I've had many people on this podcast Course Creators talk about spending months and months and months creating courses, and then going to try to find the audience and realizing that's kind of the backwards way about going about it.

So I'm glad that you talked about that point and the importance of building that audience first, and the fact that you could pre-sell the course that you could take an idea, sell it and then build of course with your students, which ends up being an overall better experience.

And then I love the fact that this platform offers a community inside of it. Because something else that I teach is when you're marketing, I like to say that you need to have content and community.

You need to have the content such as blog posts, YouTube videos, or podcasts, or what have you, to show people that you know what you're talking about to get the content out there, kind of raise your authority and awareness in the marketplace.

But you also need to have that community, because that's where you're going to build the relationships. That's where you're going to get your long term customers and students who enjoy your products.

So it sounds like this is such a great platform, because you have enveloped all of it into one. You have the content where you can have your website and you can have you know, a blog or post or what have you built into the platform.

You can have your community inside of there, where you're talking to people, getting feedback, answering questions, and then you have the learning material built into the platform.

So this is a really great company. I love what you're doing. I think a lot of people are going to get a lot of benefit out of this.

I know this is a hard question to answer, because the technology moves so rapidly, and you're in an industry that is moving at lightspeed right now.

But where do you see maybe the company in the next couple years? Let's say the next, you know, two to five years, where would you like this company to be?

Panos Siozos
Well, e-learning is growing at a rapid pace. Obviously, COVID has been a huge catalyst for the industry. And definitely I can see a future where let's say in the next couple of years, a company that wants to train 100 people puts them inside the hotel for five hours of PowerPoint, there will be probably a riot.

So, I think a lot of things changed in how we learn, how we work, remotely, lifelong learning and escaping nine to five and all these trends have really coalesced and have been catalyzed by this terrible COVID situation.

So we're still anticipating and we're trying to understand where the future goes. We understand that there are millions upon millions of small businesses that have discovered elearning and there and have been pushed into learning. A dince trying it, they have realized what can be the efficiency, the effectiveness of using online learning.

So we don't see a way back people will continue using it more and more. And there we really believe that easy, super user friendly, their hybrid platforms like LearnWorlds, where you can build amazing content, like all in one platform, you can build amazing content.

But also you can create innovative business models where you can sell courses, you can sell live classes, you can sell one-on-one sessions or small team sessions, all these hybrid functionalities will start undercutting the much more, you know rigid and robust learning management system.

So we really see that the online course platforms will become a necessary tool of being business, whether you are a trainer or a coach or a consultant. Education is an amazing form of marketing is super versatile. So it can really add value to any business segment and to any business model.

So we're seeing that flexible, hybrid, and super user friendly course platforms like ours can really be a huge asset of the hands of any professional and any business.

Jeremy Deighan
Perfect, very cool. Well, thank you so much. It's been awesome talking to you today. I know a lot of people are gonna get a lot out of this episode, and will be very interested to check out your company and what you got going on.

So where can they find you online, if they would like to learn more?

Panos Siozos
You can just visit www.learnworlds.com. You can always start a free trial, 30 days no credit cards required, no strings attached. Just play around, sign up to one of our live webinars. We do multiple per week.

And check out if this platform is something that can really add value to your business and help you create your courses create an amazing online business in a box. We'll be happy to meet you and help you with your project.

Jeremy Deighan
Perfect. Well I recommend everyone go check that out now. I'll make sure that I put that link in the show notes. Also, if you want to check out the show notes at the end of this episode, you can click directly from there.

Other than that, thank you so much for coming on the show today. This has been amazing talking to you. And I just love this company. I love where you're taking it and I just really look forward to what you create in the future.

Panos Siozos
Thanks for having me, Jeremy. It was great.