From Training on Helping Abused Children to an Online Course with Holly-ann Martin

Jeremy Deighan
Hello, everyone, thank you for listening to the podcast today. We have a very special guest with us, Holly-ann Martin with us and she is going to from Safe4Kids who is in the child abuse prevention education arena. And I think this is going to be a really cool topic. And I am super excited to hear all about your story. Holly, how're you doing today?

Holly-ann Martin
Yeah, really well. Thanks Jeremy.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, this is great. I appreciate you reaching out and talking with me and having you come on the show, and can't wait to kind of dive into your business and everything that's going well for you.

Before we start, though, if you could just take a minute, and let us know a little bit about yourself. What were you doing before you got into the online business space. And then what led you to this place?

Holly-ann Martin
Well, I was a teacher assistant working with children with special needs. And the children, unfortunately, are being sexually abused. So we I was in a school where we were trained in an abuse prevention program. And then I went up into some remote communities here in Australia, where some horrible things were happening to children.

So I saw a huge need for resources and training for teachers and things like that. So I've been doing that since 2007. But about four years ago, now, I was doing a lot of face to face training. But it's something that parents until it happens to their children, they don't want to think about something bad happening to their child. So I would do a parent workshop, and the mums would come along.

And they would say, "Oh, gosh, I wish my husband had have heard this, too." So even before COVID hit, we sort of thought, well, you know, the online space is where we really need to go. So I went to Thailand, of all places, with an amazing person that works in this field that builds online courses. Her name's Sarah Cordner.

And my husband and I went to Thailand for seven days. And we built our online parent course, we stayed in this magnificent villa, we couldn't leave the villa for seven days. But at the end of it, we have this amazing parent course. And now we're building online lessons for teachers.

So that now with COVID, everybody's used to online training, and even teachers don't feel comfortable talking about my topic. You know, lots of teachers don't feel comfortable saying the names of private body parts and things like that.

So we're building this online platform now, where teachers will literally just have to plug and play it. And they'll then there'll be worksheets and things like that for them to do follow up lessons.

Jeremy Deighan
Nice. Yeah, this is really cool. A couple of things. One, I understand that, you know, this topic is, can be uncomfortable for people to talk about. But like you said, I feel like more people should know about it. Just to bring awareness, you know, to to the subject, so people can be prepared.

I mean, I have two children, and it's something that you do think of as a parent. So I just appreciate you doing this. I really think it's tremendous work that you're doing, and you have information people need to hear.

And I say this to you. And I say this to all the listeners listening right now is go create that course, create education, go help people because there is something there that you have, that you can help someone with. And if you don't do that, you know, people don't get that help. So this is amazing work that you're doing.

Yeah, Sarah Cordner, is a good buddy of mine. She's in the same space teaching online courses. She does tremendous work also. So I encourage anyone listening right now to go check out Sarah Cordner, we'll put the link for her in the show notes. And you can go hop on over to her site and see what she's got going on.

So you go to Thailand, and you go to build out this course. And I assume that this was kind of a new adventure for you. You hadn't done anything like this before in the online space at that point, correct?

Holly-ann Martin
Oh, totally. And my husband, so my husband and I both went. And he was really skeptical. And first of all, because it was quite expensive to go, you know, to another country and all of that expense with air flights and stuff like that.

But once he met Sarah, it was really cool because, you know, we did the landing page, we filmed everything all in a week, and just to be able to have something up to, you know, direct people to. But also, we package it now with when COVID hit, I had a lot of face to face training. And, you know, this is something for your listeners to do is to be creative.

All of my work stopped, you know, for six months. And a couple of the local town shires had booked me to do training. So I went to them and said, "Look, I'll sell you, you know, 100 spots at this rate." And so that's how we basically got through COVID was by packaging it up, so that they could give the links to families in their districts.

And now also, I've written a child program for childcare centers. And so as well as the the lesson plans that I've written, which are hardcopy, I've also now done a training for educators to deliver the program, because I believe that we need to start talking about protective education from the age of three.

So childcare centers are a great way to do that. So I filmed a training for the childcare workers, and then also package my parent as a bonus. So it's sort of like you can have our kit, then you can have the training for the educators on the kit.

And then the parent workshop that I'd already designed, is sort of like a icing on the cake. So you've got the childcare center, the parent and the child are working together to keep safe now. And so, you know, for people listening to to think creatively and about, you know, how can you bundle what you've got, and to leverage off, you know, so that people get more value out of it.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, this is really cool. You talked about a couple things, and we're gonna unpack some of this stuff here. I like that idea of bundling those things together, because it raises the value of what you're doing. And you can, like you said, get to people who are on different levels, the educators, the parents, the children, it gives you more opportunity.

So that's really cool. So let's talk about a couple of these things that you mentioned. The first thing that you said was when you went to, you know, work in Thailand was Sarah, you did everything in a week.

This is awesome, because a lot of people spend too much time in the production phase, in my opinion, I've talked to people who have taken, you know, months, even almost a year to get a course up and running.

So to be able to do that in a week and have some sort of product to get to market is amazing, in my opinion, because the faster you can get it to market, the more quickly you can get feedback and refine it.

So can you talk about a little bit about what that week was like? I assume it was very intense. If you could tell us a little bit about that. That'd be awesome.

Holly-ann Martin
So basically, we had a misconception when we went. I'd already filmed a so normally my face to face parent workshop is two hours long. So I'd already had one professionally filmed. And when my husband and I went, we sort of had it on a hard drive with the thought that, you know, we'll just cut that up and slice it together.

And no, no, no, because if you well, you know, Sarah, that's not the way she works. So it was out with post it notes. They were probably, let me see, I think there were about 10 of us that went that were staying in this chalet. And so we were spread right across the whole place. And everybody had a wall with you know, they're post it notes that they brainstorm the different.

Sarah is really good at getting the ideas out of your head. You know, everybody's got a wall with all these post it notes on and then while I was filming the content, big cause again, I you know, you're very good at you know, your staff. But it's how to get an out of you.

And so we just brainstormed all the ideas on post it notes, posted all on a wall, move them all around. So it all made sense. And so while I was filming that, because she had a professional film crew come and so all of the outtakes the whole thing was edited, put together in the week while I was doing that my husband was writing the copy for the sales page and things like that.

And before we actually left Thailand, I sold $1,000 because Sarah won't let you get away with anything. And so the whole time you're there. We were doing Facebook Lives and asking for ideas from you know, I sent out emails to my email list about you know, what do you want to see in a parent work shopping thing?

Just like that, then we use that as the sales copy. And yeah, we sold $1,000 worth, and the course is $47. So to have sold now $1,000 worth before we left Thailand was pretty cool.

Jeremy Deighan
That's amazing. $47 course $1,000 worth. I mean, what is that, like 200 or something like that. That's totally cool. And, and how inspirational for that to happen to you.

Because when you come into that week, you know, you have an idea of what you want to do, you're the expert, and you kind of think you know how it's going to go. Probably don't have an idea in your mind that you're actually going to walk away with it being sold. You get in there, like you said, she's really good at breaking down the ideas and getting those ideas out of you.

I love the post it notes strategy, I use it myself. I've had my walls covered and pink and yellow, and green post it notes before. So if anyone is listening real quick, if you want a great way to brainstorm ideas, get a stack of post it notes, and just start brainstorming every little topic that you can think about one right after another, don't stop, don't try to think about it too much. Write them all out.

And then you can stick those up on your wall. And once you have them on your wall, you will start to see patterns. And you can see, "Okay, this, this topic goes here, this topic goes here." And because they're sticky post it notes, you can move them around. So that's really cool. And then you went on to record you went on to sell. That's so cool.

Because like I said, you know, some people get so caught up in the production of their course, they worry about so many little things. But this intensive week, you were able to get your course published, get it sold, get it out to the people.

So what happened after that? Like you leave Thailand, you've sold this course, what was like the next steps of your business or what happened from there.

Holly-ann Martin
To be honest, I hate to admit this,, I am a bit slack at promoting it. But one of the things that I also for your listeners to do is have affiliate links. So there are people that teach sex education and teach mindfulness to you know, help parents teach mindfulness and things like that.

So I've got people that are in the same field, but they're not teaching my topic. And so I give them affiliate links. And that's, well, to be honest, that's where we get most of our sales, because they put it in their newsletters and things like that. So we offer a 50% affiliate link. And basically, yeah, you can make money.

Which is really, really cool. And, you know, a lot of people say, "Oh, you know, 50%, that's a lot to give away." But we look at it as if we wouldn't have had those sales anyway. And we were really keen to pay it forward. And quite often, to be honest, I'll have lots of parents contacting me, you know, "I'm a single mom and I probably give away [inaudible]."

But it's, you know, when the topic is So, you know, difficult, it's not about the money. I mean, yes, it would be nice to, we still haven't made the money back that we paid out. Because two of us going to Thailand is you know, airfare and stuff. But the fact that, you know, we know that we're making a difference, and we're looking at the lesson plans for schools and things like that.

And because we focused on Australia, we're a very big country, but we're very small population. But you know, I really need to be marketing this, you know, to every English speaking country. And so, once we've got our lesson plans done, we'll be able to package it and, you know, there'll be lesson plans.

So we've had, I went to speak at a conference in Alaska, and it was an indigenous child abuse conference. So there were 1500 people, all First Nations people at this conference, and everybody's going, "Oh, my gosh, you know, we've got nothing like this program."

And, you know, we were talking to people, First Nations, you know, the Cherokee, and the different Indian nations and things like that. So, to think that, I mean, it's not that it's happening in those communities more, but I do a lot of work in remote Aboriginal communities here in Australia.

And so the problems are quite similar. So they were really excited and to think that, you know, our little program could be making a difference in the US and the UK and things like that is, is phenomenal. Really.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, that's really awesome. And, you know, just to go back and re clarify for anyone listening. So, in a lot of these online course, platforms are you using Thinkific?

Holly-ann Martin
Yes we are.

Jeremy Deighan
Okay. Yeah. So if you're using an online course platform like Thinkific most of them do it, you know, Kajabi, Teachable these different online course platforms, you can set up a program where if someone shares your course and a sale is made, you could set a percentage.

So as Holly-ann was stating, if someone else shares her course, and the sales made through that program, the person who shared it makes a 50% commission on the sale of the price.

And, as you said, it's a great way to reach people that you may not have reached before. What's great about this is that it's spreading the word and people are getting to know you organically. And now that you have sold the course to those students, you can sell them future courses or future products.

So it's kind of like, you know, spending money on advertising. General advertising, you don't make money in the beginning, you make it after you have got people into your system. So now that you have the students, if you create another core, so you create, you know, new worksheets or workbooks and you want to sell those, you have those people who have come through that affiliate link and bought, but now you can continue to sell them.

So that's really cool. I like that strategy a lot. And like you said, to be able to spread the word and get to other countries out there. That's what's so amazing about this online world right now is that you can reach a global audience where 20 years ago, you were confined to, you know, your country or even your town.

Something else that you mentioned was you talked about selling these 100 spots to the local community, so that they could pass those along to the families in the districts? Was those 100 spots for your online course?

Holly-ann Martin
Yes.

Jeremy Deighan
Okay. So you basically reached out to a local community and said, "I have this online program." So did you give them like a discount, like 100? For a little discounted price or something like that?

Holly-ann Martin
Yeah, yes. So they booked me to do face to face workshops, and because of COVID, were all in lockdown, that couldn't happen. And so, yeah, we packaged it up. And, you know, "If you bought 50 spots, it would be this price. And if you bought 100 spots, that would be this price."

And so then, I just created a two minute little YouTube video saying, you know, "The city of Belmont have generously given you this code." And then they would put that on their Facebook page to get it out to their community members and things like that.

So I'm thinking that you just say that 100 spots, and once the 100 spots are filled, and the beautiful thing is with thinkific, you know, you can also I can go back to the shires and say, you know, "Out of those 100 people, 80% of them did the whole course. And 20% did about a third of the course" or whatever.

So giving them that sort of data, they're likely to go, "Oh, well, that was really, you know, that was bang for our buck" sort of thing. And, you know, we can leverage off that, again, if I prefer to do face to faces because of the topic, I really need to watch people's body language to see if I'm triggering people.

Because unfortunately, you know, 1/3 of children will suffer some form of sexual abuse before their 18th birthday. So when I'm in a room of 100, people, I have that stat in the back of my mind that there'll be people in the room.

Whereas an online course, I can't see people's body language, but at least because some of the videos, you know, only so I think there's about I think there's about 25 videos that goes for two hours. Some of them are only three minutes long, I think the longest, which is the public and private lesson is 11 minutes long.

So if people want to skip over something that might trigger them, that's really good. If you know, if I can't be in front of people, Mum and Dad sometimes can't both come together. So if the local shires pay me to do the face to face, and then I can also again upsell and say, you know, "If parents couldn't come, then give them this code, so they can at least watch the online course as well."

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, this is such a cool idea that you have here. I love this for a couple of different reasons. One, and I'm just taking for you. And then for anyone else listening because I was trying to take someone's story and say, "How can we apply this to other people who are listening?"

So you know, someone might be teaching programming, or they might be teaching graphic design or how to play an instrument or marketing. So, you know, we have listeners from all over and I tried to think like, how could you take this same concept and someone else use it too? I love this idea.

Because you create these packages, I guess you could call them these 50 spots or 100 spots or say 250 spots, and you can target your local community and offer like you said, "Hey, I'll give you a discount. And you pass these along. You could go to your your communities, you could go to schools, universities, all these different places, even businesses."

We had one guest who was doing something similar and he was doing b2b, you know, business to business kind of the same concept. And you can go and offer these packages and get a bundle of sales immediately. And then what's really neat about this as you do it in this city, and you see that it works, now you can go do it to other cities, you know, in your area, or across the country or in other countries, you can target those communities. I really liked that idea.

Holly-ann Martin
So I did it for three local shires. The last one was the one that I actually live in. And I went and said, "Do you know what these other two cities have done? You know, and I live in your community. And so oh, well, if the other two thought it was good, then we'll go along with it." So you know, it like a child playing a parent.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, that's really cool. Because you can use that data that you have to you can say, "Look, we sold 100, spots, they all sold out. 80% of the people who took the spots finished the course," you know, like you have that data that you can use for these other places to know.

And another thing I like about it, too, is when you have a cap, like 50, or 100, you create this scarcity. So when they go present that to their community, then the community jumped on that because they don't want to be left out. Especially if the person is saying like, "Hey, we've sold 90 Out of the 100, those only 10 left, those last 10 are gonna go real fast."

So you've built in this urgency into this package, which I think is genius. And I also like what you said that if you still like doing the in person workshops, the online course can be supplemental to what you're teaching in person.

Like you said, if a parent can't make it, or you signed up for the in person training, and you know, maybe your child got sick, and you weren't able to attend, "Well, here's a coupon to take the video lessons online."

I think that's such a cool idea for a business because, you know, I've said this before, if you're, say, a gym owner, and people are doing workouts in your gym, but you can offer an online course supplemental to the gym, that they can go home and do home workouts, you're just boosting the value of your business. I think that's amazing.

Holly-ann Martin
Definitely. And the other cool thing is, you know, I was posting it on Facebook "Do you know what this city, you know, what this local shire is doing?" And then people are going, "Well, you know, I don't live in that shire, I want to, you know, I suppose go to your local shire," and, you know, put pressure on them to do it sort of thing.

So you know, talking it up on social medias really good tool, and also setting up a Facebook group for the parent workshop as well. And so, you know, then I can answer questions and if they've got any questions about it, but also, I can say and also because I've written five children's books, to help parents talk about difficult topics, like I've written two help parents talk about pornography with children from the age of six.

And so in the parent Facebook group, as well as parents learning from other parents, I can be saying, "Oh, and by the way, as well as the workshop that you've just done, if you're still not comfortable having these conversations, I've got these really cool children's books that will help you take it even deeper."

So you know, having social media tied in with the thing is another thing that I hope your listeners will do with their courses.

Jeremy Deighan
So you've been doing a lot of really, really awesome great things. But let's talk about maybe some of the mistakes that you've made or found along the way. So for anyone listening who is a beginner, they're just starting out, or they just published their first course and they're kind of struggling.

What are some of the myths stakes that you felt that maybe you've made along the way, or things that you could have done better, that now that you're at a higher place that you can look back and say, you know, "If I was helping someone just starting out, this is what I would tell them," what would that be?

Holly-ann Martin
Well, I would definitely, and this is I'm making a mental note to do this myself. To get better at writing copy to market it, not that you want to, you don't want to be salesy. But rather than talking about, you know, "I've done this, and I've done that."

To, "I need to write copy to promote the lesson plan, well, the parent workshop, this is what I can do, you know, this is what the course will do for you, these are the outcomes that you'll get from doing our course."

And so, you know, working with, if people aren't good at working with a good copywriter to get that initial sales copy is really important.

I also, when I first started my business, and not necessarily as for my online course, but I was in business to begin with, with a graphic designer. And I didn't have any money when I started my business. So we sort of had this 50/50 arrangement that was basically done on a handshake.

So to make sure that people when they have their you know, if they're working with in conjunction with a graphic designer, or whoever, to make sure that you own the copyright is really important.

Because the graphic designer in the end went broke and her company went to into receivership. And I had to buy my copyright back from the receiver. So that was a huge one. And also, I'm not sure what it's like in the States. But here in Australia, we have public liability and public indemnity insurance. And a lot of people don't think about having insurance.

So, you know, for people, it's not just a case of grabbing your phone and saying stuff. Because if you're not insured, and people go and do something, and there's a negative outcome, then you could lose your house.

So here in Australia, and I'm not sure what it's like in the States, but I'm a member of national speakers. And because I'm a member of National Speakers, my public liability and public indemnity, I can get through national speakers, and it's at quite a reduced rate.

So again, if your listeners are doing public speaking, they might already be a member and might already have insurances. But if they're not, it's something to definitely look into.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, these are some great tips. So the first one was making sure that you are getting good at writing copy, make sure you're focusing more on the outcomes, or the benefits of taking the course, versus just the features of the course.

I think that's brilliant. Because I think a lot of us do that, when we write, we just want to kind of brag about what's in the course and what the course has, and how many lectures and modules. That doesn't really speak to people.

But when you change it, like you said to, "This is the outcome, this is how the course is going to help you or teach you or train you," then that really resonates with people. Making sure that you are owning the copyrights and the materials of whatever you have done. Very important.

So I'm glad that you mentioned that not too many people talk about that. And the insurance, I think is really great, too. That's not something I've heard a lot of people talk about either. And that's a good point, especially if you're in a field where you could be doing something that could harm yourself or others.

I think that's really important to have some kind of insurance. So those are some great tips there. So other than these that you've gone through, just thinking about that beginner that that person just starting out right now.

What is something that you could say that would help them, maybe help motivate them or just what would be your biggest piece of advice that you could tell the beginner out there who's just getting along in their online course journey?

Holly-ann Martin
Done is better than perfect. I did a course once and the guides catchphrase was, rather than "Ready, Aim Fire," it was, "Ready, Fire, Aim." And so that really stuck with me. Because sometimes we get so caught up in making it perfect.

We can go back and you know, redo the videos and redo the worksheets or do whatever. But if it's sitting in your computer, and it's not out in the world, and it's not going to be helping anybody. So just get it done, and then go back and re tweak it.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, that's a great point. I feel like a lot of people assume that once you record the course and you put it online, that it's set in stone, you know that you're never going to be able to change it but its content, its video, you know, all the videos can be changed.

The course can be moved around, you can change around lectures. I've had courses where I put it together and I thought it would flow one way and I realize this isn't really making a lot of sense. Let me move these, you know, modules around a little bit and have a better flow.

So I think that's a really good point that, you know, make sure that you get out there and get it refined to the audience. So, what are some things that are working really well for you today? It could be either in your course or in marketing or getting traffic. But what do you see that you've done recently, that has really helped propel your business forward?

Holly-ann Martin
Like I said, probably the most successful thing is the affiliate links. I hate to admit this, but I've just gone on to Tik Tok because, you know, I see the negative side of Tik Tok because I work with children, and, you know, there's grooming and all that sort of stuff. But you know, it's just another avenue.

And it wasn't until I actually had three separate policemen that I was talking to, said, "Look, Holly, you need to get over yourself. And, you know, people are on Tik Tok." And, you know, there's a young woman on there that a program that she teaches us about spreadsheets or something.

And you know, she's got a million followers, and she's making, she's killing it for her online courses. And so, you know, thinking outside the box, and, but one of my videos went viral. And it's been seen 350,000 times now. And it was only because people were trolling me.

And it was a silly little song that I teach the children, which is basically "Head, Shoulders, Knees and Toes," but in it, I named the private body parts, and the trolls all came out and just absolutely begged me out. And but because I feel like saying to them, thank you for saying all those horrible things.

You've increased the algorithm, if you hadn't said anything, you'd never seen another video that I did. But now, you said something but you know, there are people killing it on Tik Tok. And so, you know, try not to limit yourself, even though I'm still not very comfortable on it.

But, you know, if you can find the right angle, I think Tik Toks, you know, somewhere that people should go to be promoting their online courses. I know, it's something that again, in a week and a half, I'm going down to Sarah lives an hour away from and I'm going down to spend the day with her because we're going to just bounce ideas off each other and film a whole day of Tik Tok's to try and promote both of our courses.

Jeremy Deighan
Nice, that's super awesome. I wish I could go there with you. I'll have to catch a plane. Um, you know, you brought up a good point, too, that we haven't talked too much about on this podcast.

And if you could just maybe take a moment to speak on this. You know, the trolls the the negative comments that people who watch your content and whether it be YouTube video or comments on your course or on Tik Tok or any of these platforms where people can leave a comment.

You always have those those negative people. And if there's a lot of them, you know, that can be disheartening. What would you say that you do or some ways that you can overcome these people who are trying to bring you down and post negative things? Like you how do you overcome that?

Holly-ann Martin
Well, it's funny because I talk to kids about it all the time. Because part of what I do is, you know, as well as talking about sexual abuse, we talk about online safety and grooming and all sorts of things.

So, you know, for years, I've taught the children, 'Don't feed the trolls don't respond. Don't." So I basically leave it there. Unless it's if they're swearing and things like that, then I block and delete them. But the amount of people that have come on and defended me, which creates more, you know, more engagement.

And so, you know, we've got to what somebody else thinks about us is none of our business. That's my mantra around this sort of stuff. I can't control what other people we don't know what they've gone through. They might be survivors themselves, or what, I don't know what the triggers are.

But unless it's, you know, really, really bad, then I just leave it there and, and the amount of people that have jumped to my defense, and yeah, just taking them down without me having to do anything is phenomenal. And, you know, the problem is, it does hurt, I'm not gonna lie.

You can have 1000 positive comments and you get one negative one. And that's the one you remember. But yeah, I have had to grow a thicker skin. Especially, you know, if I was doing something fluffy, it would be you know, I'm sure I wouldn't have the sort of trolls that I'm getting.

But, you know, I've got to remember that there might be people out there that do prey on children that want to shut me down. So I tried just with that mantra, you know, what other people think of me is none of my business. I know that I'm in for the right reasons. And I know that I'm making a difference. And so, yeah, but I'm not gonna lie, it's not easy.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, you're right, we do focus on the negative more than the positive. But I'm glad that you are on these platforms and spreading that positivity because they need it, I had a Tik Tok account, and I ended up deleting it, because I was just getting so much, you know, just negative content on it all the time.

But, you know, I'm glad that you've taken that step two go out there, and to spread some positive light. And there might be a child or an adult, or you know, a parent out there, who sees that, and just happens to hear your message at the right time and really helps them out.

So that's really cool that you're doing that. And I like what you said about the people who come to your defense, it helps build a stronger bond with you and your audience or your community. So the trolls don't realize that they help in this way.

But when they are out there posting negative things, and then your community or your audience comes to protect you, they're just strengthening that bond. And that's just going to make the people draw closer to you and like you more and engage with you more. So that's really cool.

Holly-ann Martin
So I just ignore the trolls, but I really blow sunshine up the people that defend me, but also, I ironically, I'm a very shy person. And my other mantra is, "My message is bigger than I am." And so if we were at a cocktail party, I'd be the one hiding in the ladies, you know, not talking to anyone, because I'm very shy.

But when I'm talking about my subject, to be able to, you know, make a difference. And so if, again, if people are a bit shy about putting themselves out there, you know, the world needs to know the gift that you know. So yeah, you're more than welcome to use my mantra, my message is bigger than i am.

Jeremy Deighan
I love that, I will definitely use that my message is bigger than I am. And I'm right there with you, you get me on this podcast, and you might think I'm a social butterfly. But if we were in a party meeting, you would probably be standing in the corner together.

Very cool. Holly-ann, you've been amazing. And thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing this knowledge, I feel like you have said a lot of things that people really need to hear out there. And I hope that you continue to promote this message that you have, because you're gonna affect and help a lot of families and a lot of children.

And what a blessing to have you out in this world, just promoting that message. So if people would like to find out more about you, your business and what you have going on, where can they do that?

Holly-ann Martin
Twitter is @protectingkids. But all my other socials are @Safe4Kids. And so my website is safe4kids.com.au. So if people were interested in, you know, looking at my parent course, or any of my other resources, my children's books, that's where you'll find me.

Jeremy Deighan
Perfect. Well, we'll make sure that we put all of those in the show notes along with all the resources that we mentioned throughout this episode, Holly-ann, thank you so much for coming on the show today. I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day, and just continue to spread that message out there.

Holly-ann Martin
Jeremy, thank you so much for having me.