Digital Marketing Consultant Simon Huang Teaches Positioning Yourself as the Expert

Jeremy Deighan
Hey, everyone, thanks for checking out the show. Today we have Simon Huang, who is a digital marketing consulting expert with us. And that's really exciting because I know a lot of people out there struggle with marketing strategies and getting traffic to their online course. And I think it's going to be a great episode to have you on the show today. So how are you doing?

Simon Huang
I'm great, Jeremy. Thank you for having me on the show.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, for sure. It's really exciting. I know you've got some expertise in a lot of different topics that we can talk about today. And I'm really interested in diving right into those. But before we begin, let's go ahead and just hear a little bit about your backstory. What were you doing before the online business world? And then how did you get into digital marketing and online business?

Simon Huang
Alright. So basically, I started working when I was only 22. I know, way, way, way, later than most people. I was working in a nutrition store retail, basically sales associate. Then I got into, believe it or not, Chinese medicine.

I was actually partitioning, treating people. But throughout the time, I got interested in building websites and getting people to find my business, and doing that I started an agency in 2015. Yeah. Now I do this full-time.

Jeremy Deighan
Okay, cool. So you had your own website for Chinese medicine?

Simon Huang
Yes, I do.

Jeremy Deighan
Okay, and so you still have that business now?

Simon Huang
Well, I turned it into more of a referral marketing business. I sell like other nutrition products without actually holding them.

Jeremy Deighan
Okay, gotcha. And through that business through that website, you just started learning all these different strategies and tactics that you could implement, and then figured you start helping others with those same things?

Simon Huang
Oh, yeah. That's basically how you learn. Watch YouTube and go on blogs, and then you've got business.

Jeremy Deighan
So when you decided that you wanted to start your own agency? Well, first of all, why did you want to start an agency? Why not just continue with what you were doing?

Simon Huang
Well, let's just say I have a very short attention span. I am very great at doing things I love to do. And so I am good at treating people. But I don't know if you've ever been to a massage therapist, or physio, or a chiropractor. There's a lot of labor, it's very tiring. I was 26 ish. I don't remember. And then I got really tired after I treated for three years. My back was hurting, my hands, everything was just too much. You know, I don't want to die early.

So doing the online stuff is basically okay. I know this, I know, from the start to finish how to do everything. So I might as well just like do this full time and sit in front my computer, and obviously I get up. But I asked people to do my stuff. And I still get paid. I mean, what's better than that? Right?

Jeremy Deighan
Right. So you decided, I'm going to create an agency, I'm going to help others with the things that I've learned. What were those early days like back in 2015? How did you get clients in the beginning?

Simon Huang
Honestly, that was hard. I know everybody went through this stage. Okay? You've got to ask around, you've gotta ask your friend, you ask your family, ask your neighbors even. I have a lot of neighbors. I work on my clinic was in downtown Toronto, so very central.

So a lot of neighbors saw that I have too many patients. I was like, they can hook me up or I mean, they helped me out with their own business or their friend's business. So luckily through those. I got a steady stream of clients that want to do online marketing, and then it grew from there.

Jeremy Deighan
Okay, so just word of mouth, getting it out on the streets, just talking about it. You just started picking up a client here client there. And before you knew it, you had a legitimate business. Hmm?

Simon Huang
Of course, of course. Now I don't know how much SEO or digital marketing you know, but you can never get right to the first page of Google when you only just started. Okay? So the word of mouth obviously did only probably the best choice, right from the beginning. And I'm not discouraging anybody from listening to this. But definitely, definitely need to, you know, get around your neighbor, get familiar friends, again, and then you can kickstart your business.

Jeremy Deighan
Okay, cool. So you start this business, it starts growing. I mean, what it's been six years now that you've been doing this agency. I'm sure you've seen a lot of changes over the years through Google's algorithms and all the things that have changed in SEO.

Simon Huang
Yes, I definitely see so much change. But down to the bottom line, though, it didn't really change. If you were focused on presenting the best content for other people, rather than fitting in all the keywords we call "keyword stuffing." Web 2.0, PBN, those sort of things, I never do those things, I actually, I never get links. I only try to put the best content that I know that can help other people.

So even now, with the newest web vital, that's the newest algorithm that just came out. Google, go back to putting the best content for viewers. And that's how they rank. If your content is crap, people will exit right away, and then Google will actually put you down and then never be found again.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, it's crazy, because I've studied a little bit of this myself, probably not in-depth as you have, of course, but it's wild because SEOs have major shiny object syndrome. Because Google makes a change and they say, like, you said," Oh, you need to have keywords." And now there's keyword stuffing. People are just filling blogs.

I even remember seeing this blog post one time, where it was literally just 1000 keywords at the bottom of the page. Why would anyone want to do that? But then I realized what they were doing, they were just trying to rank. Then Google says, "You need to have backlinks." And now the big hubbub is that everyone wants to go out and just find ways to cheat the system and get more backlinks.

But I love what you said that it's really just focusing on creating good value, just creating the best content that you can create for your blog or your services.

Simon Huang
Absolutely. I mean, if you were following me, maybe back in 2015-2018, even until now. I constantly put changes, the latest changes to both the UX and UI design. And obviously, I do my due diligence of keyword research. But my content has changed a lot towards how much I can help my clients through my services, rather than, you know, doing all the keyword stuffing that most other people are still doing.

And obviously, that's not most helpful for ranking your business. But if people do go inside my page, they will stay there for a long time, rather than just jumping right out, and they eventually don't want to even hire me.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, definitely. I mean, of course, you've made this business last a long time. So you obviously know what you're doing. So this will be a great episode to listen to, because I'm sure you'll give us a lot of good insight.

So thinking about someone who's listening right now, it's probably an online course creator, someone who has a course or wants to create a course. And one of the things that I've recommended before personally, is to create content. So that might be a podcast, or a YouTube channel or a blog.

So in this instance, we'll just stick for blogging for now, because that's where a lot of SEO is, even though you know, you can have YouTube SEO and so forth. But let's say we're creating a blog, and we want to create a blog, we want to create content in the end goal that that content will help drive traffic to our online course in the future.

So what are some of the first steps that someone would want to do whenever they begin creating a blog or creating this kind of content?

Simon Huang
Okay, so for me when I deal with any kind of content and those who are making courses, I have a coaching website as well which Jeremy will call in the end, but if I were to help anybody to start a blog or a website, I would not start with thinking about what kind of content to create. Rather, I want them to think about the positioning. The end goal of what kind of customer they want to help with, and then revolve around that. And then we can start with making the right product content.

When I say product, it's mostly more of the type of trainings that you want to provide for your courses. If you can get both things created first, rather than creating or thinking of creating a bunch of content with no purpose, you're going to get more conversion. What I mean by conversion, people are more likely to contact you or even just purchase the course, right away. So I will say start with positioning.

Jeremy Deighan
Okay, so imagine, we'll use an example, say someone plays the piano. And they know that they want to create a course in piano, and then maybe we could create some content or a blog. So we want to think about our positioning of where we want to be in that niche or in the industry?

Simon Huang
Okay, yeah. Great example, actually Jeremy, because I started playing piano when I was three years old. So I've been through that route. However, because coaching programs or online courses are mostly sold to people who are adults, they're at least 20 plus. At least, they have their own money income. So you need to think about them as the end target. Okay?

If you want to create a chorus for piano learner, to those who are 20 plus, what kind of songs or what kind of genre, you don't want to teach them the basic stuff that the RCM, the Royal Conservatory of Music, that is teaching. No, you don't want to do that because it's boring as [bleep]. You want to start with something that would intrigue them.

For example, the Marvel's Studio has a great set of music, maybe you can start with a pyramid music, or the Thor Love of Thunder music. And you see, okay, maybe we can create a very easy piece of Love of Thunder for them to try out. That would be what I would go for rather than going back to the rudimentary, the harmony and etc, that you will learn through the classic way. Do you understand what I'm saying?

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, so you're really thinking about the person who you're trying to help. And it sounds like you're trying to create content that would be more engaging than just the standards. Which I've made this mistake before myself, you know, just creating the basics. Sometimes, like you said, people just get really bored with that kind of material.

Simon Huang
Well, if you've ever done tutoring, you will know that it's boring to teach people, especially when they have no interest of learning at all, you'll be frustrated as a tutor. So think about that. And putting it online is no difference. People watching you talk about the basics, that's boring, they rather something that will interest them.

They want to learn how to play, maybe like Hotel California, those are the more fun stuff. And then you're targeting adults, and if adults are talking about it, and they can show off to their beloved other half, or trying to, you know, go on a date with a girl, for example. That would bring them more advantage, rather than just showing them playing Bumblebee.

Jeremy Deighan
Right, right. Okay, cool. So we have that end goal in mind, we have that person in our head, and then we have some more entertaining type of content that we want to create. Now let's say that we want to create a blog or we want to create some kind of content on a blog.

You mentioned keyword research before. So how are you coming up with ideas for the topics? How are you doing what you call keyword research? Can you explain that process a little more for us?

Simon Huang
Yeah, absolutely. So like I said, in the beginning, I break everything down into SLP. And so when you're doing keyword research, a lot of people in the SEO industry or digital marketing industry would use tools like SEMrush, Ahrefs, Google Suggest, keyword research plugins on Chrome. Definitely you can do all of that.

However, those are paid ways and most people don't want to spend $100 a month just to use those tools because that's hard. A really easy way is going to Google and type in the phrase, say you want to learn how to play piano Hotel California, and see what's popped up.

When you go through the research you will see people well, now you see a lot of ads, but you will see whatever pops up in the first page, you'll see what kind of content. For example, there will be different types of content such as blog posts, such as product page, or such as services page, or even a local map pages, those sort of things.

You see what's more common in the first page that you have entered the keyword phrase, and you keep on going through this and keep on digging deeper and deeper through going through the bottom of the page and say the related keywords.

That is the first phase of how I do keyword research. And then you just keep on repeating that. And then you will know what is the most common type of content. And what is the set of keyword phrases that is useful for your new website, your new blog.

Jeremy Deighan
So I think I got you. If I wanted to, maybe I have a couple ideas about some topics that I could create, how to play Hotel California, on the piano. I punch that in, I go and I look at the results from Google. And then I see that, okay, it's a bunch of YouTube videos, and maybe I should go create a YouTube video on that. Or I write in like, "how to play a C chord on the piano." And then I see that it's a bunch of blog posts and I say, "Okay, let me write a blog post on this information." Is that what you're talking about?

Simon Huang
That is absolutely correct. You got it. You got it. You could do my job.

Jeremy Deighan
I don't know about that.

Okay, cool. So you go out and you create this content. You know, the term SEO, Search Engine Optimization, stands for optimizing the content so that it can be found in Google. So how do we get our content to rank you know?

I type in how to play Hotel California on the piano, I go put a blog post 500-word blog post up and it's not ranking. And you say, I can't just start stuffing keywords. So what do we have to do to get this content to rank so that people can see it?

Simon Huang
Okay, yeah, so let's start with the word counts. Word count, find the words for a page nowadays are not enough as the pro content. You would start at least 1000 to 1500 words. So let's just put it this way. You got the 1500 word, you got a lot more spaces to use to put the keywords that is related to the main keywords.

So this way, Google doesn't think that you're stuffing keywords in but also you're writing in a way where it makes people understand the whole journey of why you write the articles. Now, obviously, you're not going to rank number one right out of the gate. You'll mostly see the ranking after you do all the social signaling, all the I'm sorry to say but linking. Linking is not the most important, but still very important.

Then afterward, I will strongly suggest, if possible, create a video content, create them on YouTube and embed on to the blog post that you just wrote. Then you can utilize the search engine power of YouTube, which is owned by Google, then that way, you will also increase the chance of your page linking.

Now, I will strongly suggest if its not a high converting or its not a product based page, I don't think you should spend any money on promoting it through paid ads. But if that is something that you want to get people in and then start doing the retargeting ads later on to sell your courses, that's a good way too. That's usually how I would suggest in the first three to six months. Do you get what I mean?

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, do you mean running Google Ads to your content?

Simon Huang
Google ads. It could be Google Ads because Google Ads is based on search and social ads such as Facebook, is more on impressions. So I would definitely use Google Ads if you are doing the "how-to" kind of blog posts, or you can do video YouTube ads, which is free if they don't view the first 30 seconds.

Jeremy Deighan
Okay yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Okay, very good. So we can run some ads kind of boost up that content. Then through the links and through social media and other different ways Google will see that that's an important piece of content, and then it will start moving up the search engine. Is that correct?

Simon Huang
Generally, that's how the rundown is because, believe me, SEO is not the only tactic that is going to help making your website or online presence showing on the search engine anymore. You have to, have to spend some money in an brand new website if you are a older website, then maybe you don't have to, but most people come to me a brand new, they don't know what to do. I will say at least spend three to six months of ads. I'm still doing that for my customer, by the way.

Jeremy Deighan
Okay, awesome. Yeah, I hadn't thought about running ads to content like that before. But that makes a lot of sense. I want to ask you real quick, you touched earlier on UX and UI design. So that's, you know, user experience, user interface design.

How important is the design of a website, I mean, sometimes I see some blogs, and they look amazing. And then other times you see them, they're number one on Google, you click on them, and they look like they were made in the 1980s. So what is your thoughts on the design aspect of a website?

Simon Huang
Okay, if you're asking me I'm very biased. I prefer a much better looking website than something that has a lot of content, and that will rank right away. And I assume most people are like this nowadays, because 2021 we're stuck at home for pandemic almost more than a year now, since the beginning of 2020. Right?

And so if you want people to spend more time, it's like having a shop. If your shop decoration is crap, no one's going to step in. Or if they do step in, they probably want to get out of there right away. So looking at your website, if your website is just bunch of words, and people get sick of words, then there's no point for them to stay around, even if they might have great content. But it's meaningless.

So I'd rather focus on, okay, if its a coaching website, show what's the results and show what they're going to get out of it, show the example and break them down. If you go onto my website later on, you will see how I don't have a lot of content for every single pages. But I will still put in important headings and important content in there to break them down. And people would understand that people will think that it is readable, and is great to stay around for a longer period of time.

Jeremy Deighan
Okay, cool. So, in the instance of like saying online course, making sure that we're putting in, you know, reviews and testimonials and the main components that would make up that online course?

Simon Huang
That's correct. Yeah, testimonials, definitely important. Testimonial is super important. However, I don't want people to just think, "Oh, they can get fake reviews." No, if you don't have any reviews, please don't put them on. It's the same thing as you were doing drop shipping website, they take a lot of reviews. And those are from the wholesaler, or even for Amazon, and it's just stuff on it. Or I don't want to save which kind of course website but you see a lot of old course website built on a software that starts with a "C", you will see the design looks exactly the same.

And I think a lot of people get the hang of it. A lot of people know that, okay, this is just another guru creating a website. Please don't make it that way. I know that you probably are tempted to listen and try to do it their way. I don't think this is the best way, you do want to create a brand.

At the end of the day, you want to stand out right? You want to create a brand so make a proper-looking website, make proper-looking landing pages for the course that looks legit. Don't stuff testimonial. Don't stuff anything that someone else is putting. Because people know it's fake.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, definitely. Okay, cool. That's some great information and gives us some good SEO practices that we can follow.

Let's switch gears a little bit here for a moment because before we got on the call, we were talking about, you know, people jumped from tactic to tactic and the importance of creating an SOP which you mentioned earlier, a standard operating procedure. So can you just give us your thoughts on that and why that's important to have?

Simon Huang
Yeah, yeah. So I'm very logical kind of person, I'm sure you are. Because as long as you have a calendar, and you're following through, it tells me that you are a very logical person. So it implies on to the same thing when you're working as an agency owner, or you're creating courses.

If you don't have an SOP, to map out your goals, to build a framework, the planning of growing strategies, the marketing, and even doing down to the sales management, and then to reporting at the end of the month, you're not and you can't consider yourself as a business, you don't have a logical set. You just keep on working per hour. That's how I see us running an agency or making a course website. You need to have a plan and you follow through. And that's how you should do it.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, you know. I created one for this podcast, which is great that we're talking about this. Because I realized before, I didn't really know the steps, and I was just kind of doing random things. But when I sat down, and I recorded every step from beginning to end, and I have this word document that's like 100 pages long, but it has every single step that I took.

And when I did that, one, it helped enlighten me into the process and where I could make adjustments, and two, it speeds up the process. Because I don't have to think anymore about the next step. I can just go in and look at this document, and it tells me, okay, we recorded this episode, now I need to edit it, now I need to publish it, add the titles, the descriptions, and so forth.

And then the other benefit to that, for me is now I'm able to hire people on and because I already have this, you know, it's like a training manual for a new company.

If you go work at a fast food restaurant, they're gonna give you a manual, this is how you cook the fries, this is how you cook the hamburger. So I feel like now I have that training manual that I can take and give to other people and get them on my team and just increase the workflow in the business as you said.

Simon Huang
Honestly, we're on the same page here, man. That's creating a course is just basically taking out your own company process and giving out to people. That's how I create my course. And you're absolutely right. This is how we can save money from hiring virtual assistants, because they're following through the exact step by step procedures.

That includes the Word Documents, that includes the presentation, that includes the YouTube video that tells them that shows them the screenshare exactly how they can do step by step how to edit, how to produce. And at the end of the day, you're sleeping and you wake up the work is done. And it's cheaper.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, and there's no questions asked. So if someone's not following the procedure, and you're having a hard time and you might have to let them go. You can just refer back to that. "Look, I showed you this was the process and you're not following the process," right?

Simon Huang
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, of course, in the beginning, if you're hiring a full time person. Yeah, I mean, you definitely have to stay on top of them. But what I would do nowadays, if I were to hire a full time person, I'll say the first two weeks, go watch this entire series, because you're hired for this position.

And then in the third week in the start, try it out, and you can ask me a question, I'm here for you. And if they still don't get it by the end of the fourth week, I'm sorry. Or they get it, that's great. They get hired as my full time or I'm gonna have to find another person.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, definitely. Now I'm still trying to figure out the best way to do this myself. So this is a inside information for myself. But what's the best way that you found to do an SOP? Are you using Docs, do you use like a Trello board, ClickUp, or Asana or videos like what's the best way that you found to create these systems?

Simon Huang
So if you're talking about starting from zero, I would say use Google Docs, that's the easiest way. And then actually try to learn how to use the headings. So they do have Heading one, two, and three, just the same way that you produce a WordPress blog post, write them out. And if you can label them out, and from every single step, like you said, record a screenshare video. That's the first very, very, very beginning and if you get get this on roll.

I use a lot of project management software from Trello to Basecamp to now what I use is Zoho One. Zoho One is all in one, so it has CRM, it has project based management, it has a booking system, it has everything. So that's my newest set of software.

But that's for running a business and if you are using all the other softwares like Trello for one thing and then Asana for another thing, you will have to do a lot of like Zapier to connect them all. So now just forget it, I use everything on Zoho, and definitely a much easier way because everything is stored in one account.

Jeremy Deighan
Yeah, I like that, I'm gonna have to look into that software. I started migrating stuff to ClickUp, which has like a Trello board type style has a CRM type style, but I haven't really cracked the code on the best way to put all that together. So that's some great information.

So thinking about the people listening, online course creators out there people who are starting or people who are having trouble getting traffic, what are some just tips or advice or your number one tip that you could really give someone out there who's listening right now, who just needs help with marketing, needs help with getting traffic to their course?

Simon Huang
Number one tip? Set up your Facebook and Google Ads Pixel. And then create a custom audience, based on someone who has visited your top of funnel contents, which are the blog posts that you write. And to those who have visited to the middle of funnel, which is the training pages, exact training sales pages that you have created. And to those who have not been to your bottom of funnel pages, which is the conversion, which is usually the purchase pages or the "Contact Us" page.

If you have set those things up properly. And because content traffic is going to grow slowly by organic, you utilizing the ads, which are retargeting and spend maybe maximum $50 per day, you can get a lot more hot, hot leads who are potentially going to buy your product. I strongly suggest people to do this.

And I strongly suggest people if you are selling high ticket courses, which are at least $3,000 then go to a contact page rather than selling it to a product page, just on the side. But yeah, definitely do the retargeting, definitely do the Pixel. Don't think about SEO right from the beginning, SEO will pick up if you have followed through my tactic from the beginning.

Jeremy Deighan
Okay, that's cool, I wasn't expecting you to say that. So you're saying that SEO is more of a long-term strategy that will come. But in the beginning, really getting the ads going is a great way to kind of jumpstart and boost those leads and get people into your system.

Simon Huang
That's correct. Because if I just take just one more minute to say something, Jeremy. I even nowadays, when I deal with clients, I even tell them right on, "If you're hiring me for SEO, you're hiring the wrong kind of person. I'm not doing SEO, just SEO for you. I'm trying to grow your brand, through any means of online or digital marketing."

So I'm going to teach you how you can run this, but I'm gonna help you set those up. But if you don't have someone who is gonna dedicate your time to develop your own company marketing strategy, then it's going to be hard for anybody to work with you. Because you're not going to pay me 1,000s if 10,000s of dollars per month, or anybody. I want you to try and build that marketing team. With my help, obviously.

Jeremy Deighan
Okay, awesome. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. So it's more about the overall strategy and structure of creating a business instead of just, you know, some quick SEO tips to help someone boost their traffic real quick.

Simon Huang
Absolutely. That's always my end goal.

Jeremy Deighan
And then you mentioned the high ticket low ticket. I know, you know, course creators come from all different walks of life. Some have them on their own platform, some are listening, who come from marketplaces, and they hear you say a $3,000 program. And they're like, "wow, that's insane."

So what were you saying about the sales page? So anything under $3,000 should be a sales page, and then anything over $3,000 should be like a booking page? Did I hear you correctly?

Simon Huang
Yes and no. So to me, every single page is a sales page. So every page is your chance to sell. So it doesn't matter how you want to call it everything is to sell. But if under $3,000, let's say your course is $497 or $997. That's what most marketers will sell. I will say okay, send them to a product sales purchase page so they can just check it out right away.

But if it was something like at least $3,000, that's how much my base coaching program is, by the way. I take them directly to a contact page where they have to fill out a form. They have to book a calendar with me to have a talk to see whether or not it's suitable for you.

Because it's so expensive, right? It's $3,000 dollar in a pandemic is actually very expensive. I mean, but if you're hiring someone, it's $3,000 amount per month, at least to do something like that, right?

So regardless of whichever way it's still a lot of money. So I don't think it's easy to sell with just a sales page and the checkout, if you're selling for $3,000 course, so that way, you definitely want to talk to them, and talking with them, one on one on zoom is the best way to sell. And if you're selling $497, or $997, or anything below that, just go through a checkout page retarget ads, just keep doing that.

Jeremy Deighan
Awesome, perfect. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, man that the time goes quick. And we appreciate you having you on the show. Just thinking about where your business has been in the past five or six years. And looking forward, I always like to ask people, what would you like to see yourself doing in the next couple years, or five years, or 10 years? Where would you like to go? How would you like to grow this business?

Simon Huang
So for me, I like to maintain my consulting kind of business, obviously. But definitely moving on towards a coaching program where I will have people go through my program first, and ask me questions on the way after they go through it.

And that's my five year goal is to have as many people as possible who are starting their own business, or are in a business already, and they're working as an in-house marketer, to keep on joining me and other marketers to learn the newest tactic, and so on and so forth.

Obviously, it brings me the residual income. But also, it allows me to learn something new as I grow older. I don't know how old you are but I'm 35 right now. So in 10 years, I'll be 45. My goal then will be definitely focus on family.

Jeremy Deighan
Awesome, that's great, Simon. I just hope you get that success and get to where you're going. It's exciting times we live in. And it's just really great that we are in a very fast changing world. And sometimes it can be hard, but sometimes it can have its benefits.

You know, it keeps us really working our brains and seeing new things and new avenues and you know, Google and Facebook's changing constantly. And so there's always work to be done because of those changes.

So if people want to find out more about you, your coaching, your consulting business and all the things that you're doing out there, where can they find that?

Simon Huang
Oh, yeah, great. Thanks. So you can find me very easily through typing my full name SimonWYHuang on Google or any places. That is where you will find me on agency or consulting.

However, I definitely want to take this chance to promote my coaching program, which is studywsimon.com, which stands for "study with Simon." You know, I just want people to have more chances to go visit studywsimon.com and see if this fits you.

Jeremy Deighan
Well, Simon, thanks so much. You're very intelligent person. And I don't see why anyone wouldn't want to go check that link out and sign up. And we'll make sure we put all those links in the show notes, so you'll be able to find them easily there. Other than that, thanks for coming on the show today. We appreciate you being here and just giving us your time and your expertise.

Simon Huang
Thank you, Jeremy, you have a great day.